Monday, December 13, 2004

The Un-national guard

Heyy!!
I missed you guys, and I missed blogger, it was very nice to log in to my blogger account again, I almost forgot my password;)
I have been busy lately (ya I know, like always) with uni, and with life.
actually I want to tell you a bit about Iraq! so fasten your seat belt, throw that cigarette, yes I am talking to you, and litsen to me:
first of all...In the last two years, we were trying.........
didn't I just tell you to throw that cigarette away?
That's it, enough is enough, I am not finishing the post. .
......
......
......
ok ok, I accept your apology, I am finishing it.
So: I will tell you about Iraq nowadays, when you are graduated from any uni, and while you are so happy and making plan for the future and the princess in the charmed castle, you go to search for any work in the public sector, that's what Iraqis do, you get a job and a fixed salary, then you get promotions and stuff till you are retired and the government of course will keep giving you a salary for ever, and you might get lucky and the government might give you a small piece of land, or a house or a car, or you might take a lone and build your own house, or get married with it and live happily ever after.... that's how things used to work until the nighntees, where salaries become too small to cover the transportation money from your place to the ministry or whatever place you work in, in things got too ugly and bad things happened but yet...Iraqis never stopped loving to get a job in the government.
now, after the "liberation" and in the new "free" Iraq, things are a bit deferent.
ministries are divided between deferent parties, if the ministry of foreign affairs was given to a Kurdish minister, then don't hope to get a job there if you are Arab, the ministry that was given to a minister from the Dawa Shea party, wouldn't hire you unless you belong to them, if you go the ministry that was given to a minister from the Islamic revolution shea party, you wouldn't get a job unless you have a recommendation from their political office or someone from them, the same for sunna too, the new divided Iraq, still have much that you didn't hear about, wait and read: still, if you want to get a job, any job, you pay a bribe of $200-400, depending on the job, which usually gets you a salary of like $200 a month or less. the engineers that used to be my friends in uni and graduated in the last two - three years, are all either sleeping in their houses, or working in jobs that doesn't match their qualifications, construction workers, secretaries, etc... the numbers of unemployed people is huge.
one magical solution is to, join the national guard!
what? The national guard? You mean for the American nation guard?
no! no! The new Iraqi army is called the "nation guard" too, isn't that nice?
Lets start signing, sing with me guys: we all live in America..We all...
anyways.
the national guard, which -conveniently- has the same name of the American "national guard" (we never used that name before, completely new to us) who are the loyal sons of the American occupation, once you join that, you get a cool weapon, you get unlimited authority, and you get 400 000ID, about $275 a month, isn't that just nice?
now lets talk about the nice "national guard":
in Arabic, they are called "haras watani", exact translation, haras is guard and watani is national, people in the streets call them haras la watani, which is: un-national guard, or call them haras wathani, conveniently, by changing one letter, it becomes infidel instead of national (wathani instead of watani).
if you were on the traffic light and heard bullets right next to you, don't panic, its just one of the national guards telling people that he is "there" and that they must clear the way to let his majesty move. if you are sleeping in your house, and somebody started to shoot in front of your house, and almost broke your door knocking, don't panic, its just them searching, and get ready, you are about to lose things form your house, beside dignity and security, mobile phones and any jewelry or anything that is light and expensive, and any gun, even a licensed one, they take it too, and of course give you no papers to prove they took anything from you.
site: my uncle's house time: 5 am event: national guards knocking brutally on the door, they left after minutes of ssearching, leaving a mess behind them, and scared people. few days before that, 2am another house, they broke in, they stole not only mobile phones, but also $4800 and a CAR!!!! few days ago, they decided suddenly that a hair dresser shop is "suspected", so they broke in, and "Searched" all women's bodies. couple of weeks ago, a friend of mine was in the line of a gas station, and one of the national guard didn't like the way he was parking, so he just broke the side mirror with his AK back, and when my friend objected, he also damaged the size of the car and called other national guards to tie my friend's hands and send him to jail, he was so lucky that one of them knew my friend and released him immediately, otherwise he would have spent a longtime, God only knows where and for how long, oh..I forgot to say, they cover their faces, cause they are too afraid to be known so my friend never knew who released him. few weeks ago, they made a check point, and a police patrol was in the street, they made the police get off their car, and they searched it, one of the policemen had a high rank, but it obviously meant nothing, the authority of the national guard is above everyone. they curse people, they use very dirty words with people, and no one cans say a word, they are armed, and they have unlimited authority. they great national guard, was used also to kill people in Najaf and in Falluja too.
now do you wonder why people attack them?
I can go on and on for ever, but I think that what I said was enough.
those are Allawi men, and the occupation men, those are the fruits of the Allawi-Bush government, a scary version of Saddam's gang.
now light that cigarette, and reflect on it.
me*

105 Comments

#12/13/2004 06:56:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

You must be very SAD today, right? This is the day your HERO, your ARAB CHAMPION, Saddam Hussein was captured in his little SPIDERHOLE. My heart really goes out to you, Khalid. Man, if only your BIG FELLA were still leader and Uday and Qusay were still alive. Oh, wouldn't it be nice if Uday were still feeding humans feet-first into his woodchipper? Everything would be wonderful if only we could bring back Saddam and his sons and your family could go back to those HAPPY DAYS when Iraqis lived under one of the most repressive tyrannies of the 20th century.

Meanwhile, the ITM brothers have started their own political party and Mohammed is running for government and right now they're touring the US and talking to Americans about the importance of Iraqi blogging. I heard them interviewed on the radio here in New York city last Friday and they were smart and articulate and passionate about democracy coming to Iraq.

Are you wearing a black armband today, Khalid? Are you and your friends painting signs to carry in a parade begging for the return of Saddam Hussein?

Are you finally going to join the democratic process or is totalitarianism they ONLY system you understand?

Over the past year, I have come to respect your Mom, Faiza, much more than you and Raed. You two have never ONCE offered any positive plans about Iraq's future. All the other Iraqi Bloggers, Ali, Mohammed, Omar, Sam, Alaa, Zeyad, AYS, and Firas want to build their future.

When Iraq becomes a successful democracy, remember Khalid, YOU will have had NO PART in bringing it to Iraq. You and your brother will be seen, rightly in my view, as part of Iraq's PAST of tyranny. How's does that feel? There are millions of courageous Iraqis who put their lives on the line every day to bring democracy to their country. You and Raed are worse than cowards, I'm afraid. How does it feel?

*

 
#12/13/2004 07:05:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

You and Raed say you support the insurgency.

Do you realize how that must sound to the majority of Iraqis and the Multinational Forces?

What of all of those families whose father or husband was a Iraqi National Guard member who has been killed -- or blown up or executed -- by YOUR INSURGENCY.

I hope to God that Iraqis do NOT

 
#12/13/2004 07:10:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Typing too quickly.

I hope to God Iraqis do NOT forget that you and Raed support all the insurgency members who ran the TORTURE ROOMS in Fallujah, the insurgency that routinely blows up innocent Iraqis, and that capture and decapitate Westerners, even if that Westerner has spent their life helping Iraqis.

You and Raed have BLOOD on your hands and NO AMOUNT of washing is going to take it off.

Iraqis, please remember that Raed and Khalid have supported the people who have no hope but in killing fellow Iraqis and bringing chaos to your country!

Raed and Khalid, the BLOOD on your HANDS will NOT come off!

*

 
#12/13/2004 08:08:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger madtom

Hey Jeffrey,

Do you have any sources for the Two brothers tour, I would like to blog about it but haven't found much. I stumbled on the whole issue the other day by accident. Any info would be appreciated.
Madtom

 
#12/13/2004 08:45:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

madtom,

Yes indeed. They visited Roger L. Simon in LA yesterday and he just blogged about it around an hour ago.

Roger L. Simon.

You can also check my rejuventated blog for a bunch of links about their visit, including a link to their radio interview on WNYC here in NYC.

*

 
#12/13/2004 08:48:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

*rejuventated?*

Yikes.

Sip coffee.

*rejuvenated*

Iraqi Bloggers Central.

Check out my SPIDERHOLE ANNIVERSAY EDITION for today.

“He looked like a homeless man at the bus station.”

*

 
#12/13/2004 09:16:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Dilnareen,

I just wanted to say how much I liked your entry at today's Kurdistan Bloggers Union on the anniversary of Saddam's capture.

I linked it in an update for Iraqi Bloggers Union.

*

 
#12/13/2004 11:19:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Khalid

Beautiful to hear from you. I have to agree. It is very nice to log into blogger, when one can.

Thanks for shedding your own light on events, much appreciated.

(as you can see, we have company again).

Stay strong.

 
#12/13/2004 11:24:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#12/13/2004 11:38:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

hehehehe..
tsk tsk tsk...
poor jeff!
you totally lost it:)
the sad thing is that you, knwo very well that all what you said is not true, and that me and raed, are the enemy number one for Saddam and his gang, and that we oppose the killing of one single innocent soul,
that we did what we could (and thats what most of people dont know) to work on releasing the kidnapped foreigners who we know were good people.
you know that, and thank God, all our readers know it, and people are laughing right now at your ignorance, and how after more than year of blogging, your brain couldnt understand all that, although we stated it clearly in all our writtings.
keep writing jeff, you amuse me:)
me*

 
#12/14/2004 12:18:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

Here's exactly what Raed wrote:

>Saddam was our national leader,
And yeah, I know I know…
he was a dictator,
he was stupid and self-destructive
but he was our national leader, that I didn’t enjoy any external forces to come and change.
I used to be an anti-Saddam during the time of the national Iraqi government, and I am still having huge critiques on how was he ruling the country,,,
But he was a national leader, and more a phenomena than a person.
A phenomenon that Iraq must go through to reach to a better future.

>I used to have faith in the Iraqi government, and used to consider it as a base that can be enhanced in the next decades, maybe giving us one of the first national democratic governments in the Arab world. I still have this faith in the Iranian government, that has better potentialities of having internal revolutions and evolution, a government that can produce a real national democracy in the long run.

>From my point of view, as a secular Muslim, I am fighting against fundamentalists and right-winged clerics, BUT I will defend them in the time they are attacked by intruders.

Enlighten us.

Listen, Khalid, I've written many times that you and your family have a lot to offer in the building of a democratic Iraq. Raed, however, clearly supports the insurgency. (We know now why he is no longer friends with Salam and Ghaith.) Every one of his posts underlines that. I know your Mom doesn't -- and that's to her credit. How about you? Who do you blame for Zarqawi slicing heads off? The Americans or the guy who is actually doing it, Zarqawi? Khalid, be a man and take some responsibility for your stance on the future of Iraq. Ridiculing the Iraqi National Guard -- guys who go out every day hoping to bring security to their country -- is NOT going to help. Calling Allawi a "puppet" is for teenagers, Khalid. Get real.

*

 
#12/14/2004 12:30:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

>me and raed, are the enemy number one for Saddam and his gang, and that we oppose the killing of one single innocent soul

Try 300,000 innocent souls and Raed didn't want anyone to remove Saddam but the Iraqi people. One more time, how were "me and raed" going to remove Saddam from power to save more innocent lives? How, Khalid? Never ONCE have the Jarrars explained your secret plan to topple Saddam.

Anyway, now Raed calls Saddam "OUR NATIONAL LEADER." Yeah, that's what the Nazis were calling Hitler too.

Hey, BTW, is Dr. Death still honored on your Dad's website?

Playing both sides of the street, huh? Who knows? Just in case, right?

Good thinking.

*

 
#12/14/2004 05:37:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Jeffrey

It never ceases to amaze me how much space you take up when it only takes one line to say "Khalid has a heart of gold".

 
#12/14/2004 06:11:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Dear Jeff.

It's sad to see someone trying to fight with all his might to believe this Iraq war liberated the Iraqis.

Jeff I hope you wake up and smell the coffee.
Or I hope you wake up and smell the blood coming from Iraq.

Your ignorance and pride is killing too many people.

 
#12/14/2004 08:17:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Stephen

After Jan. 30, there's going to be an elected government in Iraq, probably from the Shi'ite list. Will that end the resistance? ... I doubt it.

It will continue, with its beheadings and bombings of mostly Iraqis. And after a few more years, maybe it will wear out the Americans. Who may very well leave.

And the "resistance" will be dealt with by the Shi'ite government, and its forces. Do you suppose al-Jaz and CNN will care what THEY do? Nah, they'll be looking for Americans doing bad things somewhere else. No one will be looking as that government "does what is necessary" to bring the resistance down. "Light a cig and reflect on THAT."

Be careful what you wish for.

"The Commissar"

 
#12/14/2004 08:25:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

>It's sad to see someone trying to fight with all his might to believe this Iraq war liberated the Iraqis.

Millions of Iraqis were indeed liberated.

Don't believe me? Just read the testimonials of those like Dilnareen, Ghaith Abdul-Ahad, Omar, Ali, and Mohammed Fahhil, Zeyad, Alaa, AYS, Sam and Firas. All of them shouted for joy, many of them cried tears of happiness, when Saddam was toppled and later when Saddam was captured.

Listen to THEM, Anon.!

Listen to Omar:

>I'm speechless.
>I'm crying.
>The tyrants' hour has finally came. I went down to the streets to share the joy with my brothers. This is our day, the day of all the oppressed and good people on earth.
>Tears of joy filled the eyes of all the people.
Saddam, the coward, hides in a hole, shaking in fear from being captured.
>Not a single bullet was fired, without any resistance, God, he was even cooperative! The mighty tyrant, who exploited all our country's fortune for his personal protection, surrenders like the cowered I expected him to be.

Listen to Ghaith Abdul-Ahad about his life before the Coalition forces took down Saddam:

>Lying in bed, I was planning my suicide. I had only one dream in my life - to travel, to walk, to see different people and different cultures - and nothing seemed more impossible than this dream in the Iraq of our beloved leader, Saddam Hussein. I was the world's most underpaid architect, doing ugly work for ugly people who had money to build ugly houses. Dodging military service for almost six years meant that I had no documents in a country where you had to submit five different types of papers to get yourself a food ration. Apart from walking the old streets of Baghdad, getting drunk with my friend and reading, there was no way to free myself. I was trapped in this small room with no exit, not even a light at the end of the tunnel.

These voices represent millions of Iraqis. I refuse to listen to disgruntled Baathists. Anyone who sympathizes with the insurgents is an enemy to the future of Iraq. But you don't have to listen to me. There are many, many Iraqi voices out there now whom you can listen to. Raed, Khalid, and Riverbend belong to a very small minority. In all of the Iraqi Blogosphere, it's just these three who call the Iraqi National Guards idiots and who ridicule anyone who tries to help build Iraq's future. Why? Do you think Ghaith Abdul-Ahad would have a photo of Dr. Death on his website? Do you think Sam is going to hope the terrorists in Fallujah with their torture houses defeat the joint American/Iraqi forces. No, it just these three. I know the enemy. Do you?

I do not want to be Khalid's enemy, but if he supports the insurgency then he is the enemy of my many good friends in Iraq right now, people whom I have come to respect and whose courage each and every day tell volumes about the depth of their convictions and their belief in democracy.

*

 
#12/14/2004 10:05:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

i really have problems with my father.
he doesnt believe in God, i appose almost all his openions about life, i disagree about so many things he does, i wish i can change him.
but once some stranger comes with weapons to kill him, i will die defending him.
now, Saddam was an asshole, as i am a religious person, i tell you that Saddam is a seclar, and that he hurted islam and muslims, more than anyone else.
Quran states that whoever kilss one single soul is like he killed every soul on earth.
the prophet PBOH said that whoever helps with killing an innocent soul even with a a small word, will never enter the paradise.
Saddam distroyed us, and hurt us a lot, and killed hundrids of thousands, and led one of the most dictator, ruthless and corruptd goverments ever.
in any time, if i had the chance, i would have put a bullet through his head, and the heads of his sons and everyone of his gang.
so iraq is my house, but its an old house, and it needs alot of repairing, and the sealing i leaking water, but once a corporation coms to take it under force of weapons, distroy it and make money out of it, i will defent it with my life too.
there is somethign that you cant understand, or maybe you dont want to understand: we dont welcome a "friendly occupation" and we sure dotn welcome an occupation that kills our people, and steals our wealth.
i will try to be understanding, and tell you that you just need to keep quit for a while, till you understand this issue of cultural deferences, till you do, or try to do that at least, you will start to write soemthing that i can take in consideration, and reply to, not before that, and then, and only then, you will earn people's respect, and support.
my friend, raed is my brother, and i know him very well, we spent years together, he was there for me when i needed him, and i supported him whenever i thought he was right, we laughed together, we lived under one sealing, we share memories, and secrets, and now we blog, and work on the aid project together, i am the one to tell you what he meant, beside all those who got what he meant, but since you are asking me, i tell you that only in the sence i mentioned, he consideres Saddam a National Leader, in the sense that sadam is our old ruined house, that needs to be fixed badly, and that we would have done what we could to chang it for the best, but wouldnt allow a stranger to come between us, these are the rules, these rules come in our hearts with the sweet water of the tigres, with the fresh air of the morning, our broblems WE solve it, and we dotn accept foreigner intrugion that distroys the country and divides it, i know i know, its very difficult for you to understand this, but this is the way it is, we would have welcomed and suported any change from the inside, and its true what raed said, its a stage that we went through, like any other democratic system in the world, democracy comes after suffering from dictatorships, people rise up, and get killed, but they eventually get rid of the dictator, the history of people around the world tells this story, sooner or later, people stand up for theirselves and refuse to obey anymore, and that stage would have hapened, sooner or later, now the question is, would i take the decission to prolong the life of saddam's goverment, to avoid occupation?
maybe one or two years ago, i woudl have hesitated, but now i say with confidence, after the ugliness of occuption increases day by day, YES!, a dictator that falls after 5, 10, 50 years, is better than an occupation that stays forever.
in an ideal situation, i would have chosen to throw out Saddam at once, and the occupation too, but since we have to deal with reality, i would have chosen to let days do their work, and let Saddam and his gang fall.
do i want iraqis to be killd by saddam? the mass graves? the rapest sons? the corrupted goverment? all of that is true, and i sure dont want that, those are my people, and myself getting hurt, but i sure dont want my peopel to be killed by foreigners on our land, running patrols in our streets, imposing their ideas and standards, i prefer to be in hell itself, rather than hearing someone sitting somewhere 10 000 miles away telling me what HE thinks about what WE should do and what we SHOULDNT in OUR country, and what is RIGHT and what is WRONG, and who is GOOD and hwho is BAD, and who is the real TERRORIST and who is the real victim, and killing more than Saddam killed in years and years, and putting their PUPPET, hear me? PPPUUUPPPPEEEETTT goverment in our country, i dont want that, and thats what all this is about, freedom, the freedom of will, and the freedom of life.
me*

 
#12/14/2004 05:03:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Where did that sidekick of Khalids get off to? You know, that moonbeam guy from Brazil! He and Bruno will probably be chiming in soon, I imagine. Three peas in a pod, they are.


FratBoy

 
#12/14/2004 07:50:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

First of all, thanks for the long post. It is a passionate defense of your ideas. Now I have a much better understanding of your stance on many issues. Of course, we disagree on many points. We will NOT change each other's opinions. You know that. I know that. Right now we can only hope to thoroughly understand where we agree and where we differ.

>Saddam distroyed us, and hurt us a lot, and killed hundrids of thousands, and led one of the most dictator, ruthless and corruptd goverments ever.
in any time, if i had the chance, i would have put a bullet through his head, and the heads of his sons and everyone of his gang.
...
>a dictator that falls after5 ,10 , 50 years, is better than an occupation that stays forever.
>in an ideal situation, i would have chosen to throw out Saddam at once, and the occupation too, but since we have to deal with reality, i would have chosen to let days do their work, and let Saddam and his gang fall.

Okay, we agree that Saddam was a dictator who killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. The US went to war with him once in 91 and kicked his army out of Kuwait and after 9/11 we considered him such a danger that decided to take him out. So we did. 21 days. You say he was a dictator but that ONLY Iraqis have the right to topple him. Better to have 15 more years of mass graves than have someone from outside remove him, right?

But, from my point of view, totalitarian leaders like Saddam often stay in power for life and then hand the reins over to sons like Uday and Qusay. I saw NO SIGN of anyone challenging Saddam from INSIDE. Remember, just before the war, Saddam got 100% of the vote. Is there anywhere a more telling sign of oppression than that vote? In WWII the Allied forces removed Hitler. Only Nazis were upset. Regular Germans were sick of war and they soon became a demoratic country. I see the same thing here. Saddam is gone. Take advantage of this moment to help build a democracy in Iraq, like the Germans and the Japanese did after WWII.

>but once a corporation coms to take it under force of weapons, distroy it and make money out of it

Khalid, now this must be a joke. Make MONEY out of Iraq? He he. Yeah, riiiiiiiiight. Listen, we have spent BILLIONS already in Iraq. We don't want your oil, believe me. We learned way back in 1974 to diversify our sources of oil and today we get our oil from many, many different sources. We are dependent on no one country. Besides, we're a rich country and it would be cheaper for us just to buy the oil, which we do everywhere else. What we do hope for in the Middle East is the beginning of political change, a little more democracy to help change the tide of Islamic terrorism. Iraq is going to be the first Arab country with democratically elected officials. Think of that! Not the usual leaders-for-life like Mubarak or Ghaddafi or the Kingdom of Saud or the Mullahs R Us dictatorship in Iran (now Khatami is truly a puppet with a Mullah's hand up his arse)

>who is the real TERRORIST and who is the real victim, and killing more than Saddam killed in years and years, and putting their PUPPET, hear me? PPPUUUPPPPEEEETTT goverment in our country, i dont want that,

Zarqawi and the Baathists have killed more Iraqis than the Multinational Forces ever will. This is not is dispute.

Do you think all those millions of Iraqis getting ready to vote are "puppets" too? Get real, Khalid. Democracy is coming to Iraq, whether you like it or not. Do you think the ITM brothers are "puppets"? Do you know anything about their story? Do you have any idea of the risk to their lives for what they are doing?

The Iraqis I have befriended are courageous and freedom-loving people. I will not abandon them.

Okay, Khalid, now the BIG QUESTION, one you avoided answering before.

Do you support the insurgency? The insurgency is composed of angry Baathists and Al-Qaeda foreign fighters led by Zarqawi.

The insurgency mostly kills innocent Iraqis, just people on their way home or to work.

Do you support the insurgency?

Yes or no?

*

 
#12/14/2004 08:02:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Check out Patterico's thoughts about meeting Omar and Mohammed Fadhil here in the States.

Meeting Omar and Mohammed.

*

 
#12/14/2004 10:07:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

You might also want to check out this link here for one of the most moving and honest messages ever to come out of Iraq.

 
#12/14/2004 10:30:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

The 6:07 Jeffrey is not from me.

The Not-Heads have returned.

So long, dialogue.

Emigre, you have the keys. Check the 6:07 IP and you'll see it's not me.

*

 
#12/15/2004 12:24:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Maybe there is more than one person in the world called Jeffrey? Maybe there are lots of nice Jeffreys out there and it is a good thing to hear from them too. We don't want élitist grumpy Jeffreys monopolizing discussion so let's hear what all the Jeffreys have to say.

 
#12/15/2004 12:01:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Here I am !

Here I am!

Unfortunately, my internet priviliges are being revoked by the warder for excessive reaming of rednecks, and I won't be able to return until 10 January 2005. (LOL! Jeffrey caught his breath there huh?)

You can exhale, now. Actually my work is breaking up today, and I post from here. So, J will have to wait until then to have his ass reddened by me, although it looks as if Khalid is already busy. Nice try with the false dilemma of the Baathists / Zarqawi choices, Jeffrey ... but it won't work.

Khalid, Raed, Emigre, Ihath, Najma, A13, Alvaro and the other comenters here, have a safe December and a good Christams period.

Above all - Keep safe.

 
#12/15/2004 07:15:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

I've been waiting ONE YEAR to have a one-on-one debate with any of the anti-American Iraqi bloggers. Please don't shy away from this opportunity. It will be good for BOTH of us. Already, I think we have highlighted the areas where we agree and where we disagree. This is very important. Let's continue with out discussion.

You claimed the Americans came to Iraq to steal your oil; I offered my rebuttal.

You state that you would rather leave Saddam in power for the next 15 years and let him and his sons fill mass graves than have anyone else come from outside to remove him; I offered my rebuttal.

Now, to repeat, do you support the insurgency? This is an important question.

Khalid, listen, we know we disagree on many points, but let's find out exactly where we disagree, okay?

*

 
#12/15/2004 07:34:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Khalid,

Here's a specific question that demands a specific answer.

It's a good test to see how you view the current administration in Iraq.

Salam Pax's father, from what I've read, is a member of the current administration. Do you, therefore, consider him, ipso facto, a PUPPET?

And if you DO consider him a puppet, what do you think the requisite punishment should be?

Do you think EVERYONE in the current administration is a puppet?

When Iraqis go to the polls on Jan. 30 and elect a parliament, are you still going to consider popularly-elected officials "puppets"?

If your mother, Faiza, ran for office and won, would you consider her a "puppet"?

*

 
#12/15/2004 08:49:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Just in defence of Khalid - I've never read that he has ever supported the insurgents, but I have never read either that he didn't support the insurgents/terrorists. I've often wondered why - but let's maybe assume "fear" or "reprisals" may have been an incentive to not speak out against the insurgents/terrorists per se. As for Raed, his writings are full of hate and half truths - this in itself prevented me from donating to their cause - I just couldn't get past his hate; it gave me a sick feeling in my stomach! Khalid lives in a scary world - Raed may just live in a scarier one. Joanne

 
#12/15/2004 09:08:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Joanne,

>Just in defence of Khalid - I've never read that he has ever supported the insurgents, but I have never read either that he didn't support the insurgents/terrorists. I've often wondered why - but let's maybe assume "fear" or "reprisals" may have been an incentive to not speak out against the insurgents/terrorists per se.

Good comments. Yes, this is exactly why I have asked this question directly to Khalid. From everything Khalid and Raed have written, I get the feeling that they support the insurgency. I just want to get their replies on the record, so we can continue with our debate.

Fear of reprisals? I don't see that. The ITM brothers have come right out and verbally attacked the insurgency, as had other Iraqi Bloggers as Sam at Hammorabi. Sam, if you know him, is about as in-your-face against the insurgents as a person can be.

Raed, in my opinion, has become a dangerous person, someone whose hatred of Americans is clear in every post where he gleefully counts the deaths of American soldiers.

A democratic election process started today in Iraq. I hope that Khalid and Raed change their minds and support candidates they believe in, whoever that is, and help build Iraq's future.

*

 
#12/15/2004 09:33:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Ash

Jeffrey, you don't seem to understand what he wrote. Take off your western, logical, cultural bias, and try to see it through his eyes. It is 'his' house, 'his' family, 'their' issues. He hated Saddam and wanted him gone. It was up to them to do it, not you. You are the foreigner imposing your mindset in their neck of the woods. I think that is what he said.

 
#12/15/2004 10:17:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

James, James - the Iraqi people were in no position to be ABLE to get rid of Saddam, even if they wanted to. Best read a little bit more about Khalid and his family and you will see that they lived in different countries in the Middle East - not many Iraqis were afforded that luxury, but many Iraqis were afforded the wrath of Saddam, his sons, and Baathist henchmen. There is no shame on the Iraqi people for receiving the help of the coalition forces - bringing freedom, democracy, and joy to the Iraqi people is the goal of "Iraqi Freedom." Joanne

 
#12/15/2004 10:18:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Is this Jeffrey who thinks publishing details of US military casualties is 'dangerous' and 'gleeful' the same Jeffrey who used to post gleefully about Iraqis killed by the US military? Presumably he doesn't really want to know or consider the feelings of Iraqi mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, children, cousins, uncles, aunts, grandparents husbands and wives whenever they're loved ones are killed. As 95% of the tens of thousands of deaths have been caused by the US military, and over 50% of those deaths have been women and children, it's a wonder that Jeffrey still can't see why Iraqis don't see anything benign about the US and its actions in Iraq. Doesn't he think Iraqis FEEL anything? Doesn't he think that Iraq's dead, whoever they are, have loved ones? Does he think that the still surfacing tales of casual murders by US troops and acts of torture against prisoners aren't things known to Iraqis and spoken of across Iraq? Does he think Iraqis don't know and haven't read about the missing Iraqi oil revenues and corrupt contracts? What good faith is he really expecting the Iraqis to have? And quoting the Iraqi bloggers who are consistently out of touch with mainstream Iraqi opinion isn't exactly evidence that refutes what other Iraqis are thinking and feeling and saying is it? The trouble with Jeffrey's one-sided world view is that the rest of the world has access to information that he doesn't seem able or willing to consider and that Jeffrey seems to think that the horrors inflicted on the people of Iraq by the USA should count for nothing. To try to understand how and why people feel the way they do requires an honest acceptance of the facts of their experience. Discounting that experience or attacking people who report it isn't the actions of someone interested in truth or the views of others, when done deliberately it's the work of someone trying to deny reality for their own purposes.

 
#12/15/2004 10:33:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Anon.,

Ali, Omar, Mohammed, Zeyad, Alaa, Sam, AYS, and Firas are all Iraqis and they are my friends. I am here to help support their attempt to let democracy take root in Iraq after decades of tyranny.

Believe me, I want US soldiers back home as soon as possible. I wish we could bring them home today. But if we were to walk away at this moment, does anyone dispute that the long knives would come out?

I agree with Joanne. I saw NO CHANCE for an internal overthrow of Saddam. If Saddam had stayed in power, we would have seen the Hussein family in power and continuing to oppress Iraqis for the next several decades. Probably Qusay would have taken over, but if God forbid he suffered a heart attack Uday would then be the Iraqi Arab Champion. Khalid says he would be okay with that. Did you read Ghaith Abdul-Ahad's moving Guardian piece of his non-life under Saddam? Smart Iraqis will take advantage of the toppling of Saddam and try to build a better future now.

*

 
#12/15/2004 11:28:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger TOSCParabsex

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#12/16/2004 01:28:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Mark Bahner

Khallid writes, "Iraqis never stopped loving to get a job in the government."

That's a problem. If the government has all the jobs, then the government has all the power. There's a solution to that problem: Don't let the government have all the money. Then they won't have all the jobs and all the power.

Iraq has an oil industry owned by the government, with all revenues going ***to*** the government. That money is then given out (in salaries) as the government chooses. Once again, that gives government all the power.

What needs to be done is: 1) keep the oil industry under government ownership, but force the government to distribute the revenues equally to every Iraqi citizen, and/or 2) have the oil industry owned equally by every Iraqi citizen.

Khallid continues, "now, after the "liberation" and in the new "free" Iraq, things are a bit deferent.
ministries are divided between deferent parties, if the ministry of foreign affairs was given to a Kurdish minister, then don't hope to get a job there if you are Arab, the ministry that was given to a minister from the Dawa Shea party, wouldn't hire you unless you belong to them,..."

That's *not* very different from the way things were under Saddam Hussein. Under Saddam Hussein, the Baath Party decided who got jobs (regardless of merit). Now, many parties decide who gets jobs (regardless of merit).

Again, the solution is to not let the federal government have all the money. Let each individual Iraqi have their own share of the money. Then they hire people on the basis of merit (because they pay them with THEIR money).

Khallid also relates, "site: my uncle's house time: 5 am event: national guards knocking brutally on the door, they left after minutes of ssearching, leaving a mess behind them, and scared people. few days before that, 2am another house, they broke in, they stole not only mobile phones, but also $4800 and a CAR!!!!"

The solution there is to force the national guards to get warrants from a ****local**** judge before they do searches. The warrant would specify what is being searched for, and prohibit taking anything beyond that. Further, that ****local**** judge who issues the warrant should be **elected** by the local people. And the elections should take place fairly frequently...so if a judge is abusing his or her power, he or she will be voted out of office.

Best wishes,
Mark

 
#12/16/2004 01:35:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Mark Bahner

"But if we were to walk away at this moment, does anyone dispute that the long knives would come out?"

I dispute that would happen. I think all U.S. troops SHOULD be pulled out, and the U.S. government should pay the salaries of the Iraqi National Guard and local police.

Further, I think the total payroll should be on the order of 500,000 Iraqis (combined National Guard and police), and the salary should average $500 a month ($6000 per year). The U.S. government should do that for the next two years.

The total cost of this would be 500,000 x $6,000/year x 2 years = $6 billion. When one takes into account the money saved by removing virtually all U.S. troops from Iraq, the additional cost of my plan would be essentially zero.

 
#12/16/2004 02:55:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Mark, what if the long knives came out - what then? There may be people stating they want the Americans to leave, but there are also very frightened people stating they want the Americans to stay! The world would be in an uproar if the coaltion forces pulled out in full, though they prefer to bitch about them being in there! Iraq would fall back into the hands of dictatorship, if they were to be so lucky 'cause Iran, Syria, Turkey and Saudia Arabia all have their beady eyes on Iraqi oil, and the Iraqi people would be at their mercy! Joanne

 
#12/16/2004 02:59:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Khalid's comments on the government sound very similar to what is in existence in Canada today. In order to get a job in the government, you either need to kiss some ass, pardon my french, or be a French Canadian. Government is a political entity, inside and out - very difficult to get away from this. Khalid can look to work for an engineering firm when he finishes university or start his own - his thinking is still at an infant stage; he's got to start thinking outside of the box - capitalism! Joanne

 
#12/16/2004 11:33:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

It's amazing how reasons for the unjust war on Iraq change by the second.
I thought bush decided to invade for the reason of the mass destruction weapons which he never found, then it was because of the connection to Al Qaida that again was never found, and now it's because they wanted to liberate us!! we are not really liberated are we?
all the Americans have to really do now is apologise and leave...apologise and leave.

 
#12/16/2004 01:32:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Bruno - (if you're still near) thanks, have a good holiday break. will miss your presence.

Anon 7.33pm - all those reasons, all that flip-flopping. give me a bucketful of fish and i'll show you a government at war.

 
#12/16/2004 03:29:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger ladybird

Emigre

Please delete the comment from arabsex 7:28 because it's some sick from Lebanon referring to Iraqi women as sex objects, I don't mind that this person have his own Blog since every person has his own mental problem but I do mind advertising this mental problem.
Another reason is some of the members and visitors are very young for such an adult images.

 
#12/16/2004 04:44:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Aunt Najma

Emigre, PLEASE delete that link as ladybird recommended.. I really was too young to open that link!! DISGUSTING!

 
#12/16/2004 06:03:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Ladybird & Najma - done. Are either of you interested in moderating? Email me if you are.

 
#12/16/2004 06:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger ladybird

I hardly can find the time for my own Blog,

 
#12/16/2004 07:37:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Ladybird,

I know what you mean. During the semester I run a couple other blogs -- non-Iraq related (applied linguistics) -- and with a full teaching schedule I hardly have time to eat.

Hey, I was surprised some of you actually checked out that arabsex site. Why? I knew that wasn't for me right away. Hm. Are you trying to tell us something about the state of your "love life"? He he.

I hope Khalid responds and we continue the debate. I think we have a chance to really learn about each other if we try. You guys know Khalid. Ask him to come back.

*

 
#12/17/2004 12:57:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeffrey - do you think that if Khalid was against the insurgency, he would speak up straight away, or do you think that maybe his lack of an answer implies something else? Sometimes a person doesn't have to reply with an answer to have given one!

Khalid, I can't believe this would be true! Joanne

 
#12/17/2004 06:20:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Eyewitness interview: "Iraq is an absolute disaster"

 
#12/17/2004 06:59:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Dear Khalid:

I publish your post in Iraq War:

The Un-National Guard of Iraq.

Please, go there, read the comments and comment yourself.

Thanks in advance.

Alvaro Frota

 
#12/17/2004 07:09:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Massive US attack on al-Fallujah thrown back in humiliating defeat. Dust storms blind US aircraft. Puppet troops flee after 15 minutes of battle. Resistance launches attacks under cover of weather. Ninety US tanks, armored vehicles aflame.

In a new development on the al-Fallujah battlefield, US forces attempted to attack and destroy the center of the Resistance in the south of the city, but were repulsed by the Resistance fighters. Mafkarat al-Islam reported on the situation in a dispatch posted at 7:20pm Wednesday night, Mecca time.

Shaykh Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi, official spokesman for the city’s Resistance, said that more than 400 US tanks and 200 armored vehicles took part in the attack along with about 4,000 US troops, in addition to puppet “national guards,” in what was the biggest massing of US forces in the battle for the city so far. No attack on such a scale had been mounted either in this offensive nor in the first siege of al-Fallujah in spring 2004. Ad-Dulaymi said that the Americans apparently wanted to make today the last day of the Resistance in al-Fallujah.

US forces began to mass at 8am, local time, causing the Resistance fighters to move out of the al-‘Askari and al-Wahdah neighborhoods and into the southern part of the city where they could help defend the main center of the Resistance in the an-Nazal neighborhood.

Shaykh ad-Dulaymi said that the American attack began at 10:30am. After fifteen minutes during which the battle intensified, the puppet “national guard” fled from the battle field, and then from the whole battle zone, leaving the US forces alone to fight the Resistance.

The first sign that the Americans were beginning to falter came at about 12 noon when US occupation troops also began to flee from the battlefield, abandoning their weapons. The gradual collapse of the US lines continued until the victory of the Resistance forces at 3:15pm when the US troops began their withdrawal from the battle field towards the east and to the Nuwwab ad-Dubbat, al-Mu‘allimin, and the Jami‘ al-Aqsa areas at the northern extremities of al-Fallujah adjacent to the railroad tracks.

US forces used loudspeakers to call for a one-hour truce with the Resistance in order to remove their wounded from the no-man’s-land between the two sides. The Americans addressed the Resistance saying “If you are real fighters, then display chivalry.” The Resistance responded with hand-held microphones from a mosque, reading out a statement written by Shaykh Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi in which he said that God had commanded them “not to have faith in the Christians, Jews, and infidels among you.” He said, “you speak of chivalry now after you have suffered the pain and humiliation of punishment. So taste what you have been promised.” The Resistance read its statement four times although the Americans made their appeal dozens of times over.

US warplanes took part in the attacks on the city at the beginning, but then they bombed a group of US troops by mistake, due to poor visibility, and after that the aircraft were withdrawn. That took place after 1:30pm.

Shaykh ad-Dulaymi said that it was impossible at that time to give an accurate count of US losses, but that 90 clouds of thick black smoke mixed with flame were rising into the sky – signs of destroyed US vehicles, most of them Abrams tanks and Bradley armored vehicles. He said that the Resistance pursued the retreating Americans, and that there were indications that some Americans had been taken prisoner, considering that the retreating Americans had fled along many various routes.

Shaykh Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi praised the mercy of God for the fact that as the Americans gathered for battle at 8am the skies were clear, but then the winds began to pick up and intensify until by 9am there was a yellow dust storm blowing, reducing visibility to less than 10 meters. This allowed the Resistance fighters to take cover from the aircraft and tanks and to move about with ease. This was in contrast to the way that the aggressor troops responded to the dust storm, which totally paralyzed them.

The American defeat today, Wednesday, is the biggest American defeat ever at the city of al-Fallujah since the start of the US aggression against it. It is evident that the Resistance has learned the lessons of earlier attacks very well. It should be remembered, however, that today was a stormy day, a factor that worked to the great advantage of the Resistance, as prevented the Americans from using their aircraft and distracted the American troops on the ground, while facilitating surprise guerrilla attacks by Resistance fighters sowing great confusion in the ranks of the Americans.

---------------------------------------------------

Khalid:

What is your personal opinion about this? If you want, answer me by e-mail.

Thanks in advance

Aquele abraco!

Alvaro Frota

 
#12/17/2004 07:57:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Dream on Alvaro!

 
#12/17/2004 09:48:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Alvaro Frito-Lay,

Does your economics bookshelf still have ONE BOOK, or have you decided to buy a second one? Wow, that could really expand your horizons! Cool, dude!

*

 
#12/17/2004 07:48:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeff would you be so kind in explaining what insurgents really mean?

Thorughout history there is no freedom of occupation without bloodshed...from both sides...

Insurgents = Resistance
Americans = Invadors

If occupation/invading Iraq is legitimate in your eyes then so is insurgency.

 
#12/17/2004 10:43:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

If "insurgents" murder innocent men, women and children and spread terror, then they are "terrorists" and any resistance they display themselves is to save their sorry arses! The Americans just wanted to free the Iraqi people from a lunatic - Saddam - and make the world a safer place. All the action in Iraq now, between the terrorists and the coalition forces, is to stop the terrorists from murdering the Iraqi people. Get down on you knees and beg God to give you the other half of your brain. Joanne

 
#12/17/2004 11:06:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Anon.,

The question of the semantic range of the term "insurgency" is absolutely a good one.

It is a question that both Khalid and I will have to answer in this debate.

For me, the insurgency comprises three groups.

1. Baathists. The Baathists are mostly Sunni, people who were in positions of power with Saddam Hussein. Sunnis represent only 20% of the Iraqi population, so those who are disgruntled enough to kill IP and ING and Multinational Forces must be low in number in the context of the entire population of Iraq.

What do they want? They want to return to power. If this happened somehow, the Kurds and the Shia would die in piles. Does anyone dispute this?

2. Foreign fighters. These are the Jihadists led by Zarqawi and joined by other Arabs who simply want to kill Americans.

What do they want? They want democracry to fail in Iraq, plain and simple. They kill Iraqis because it's easier to do and it creates good video for Al-Jazeera. Zarqawi was very clear in that intercepted letter. He doesn't give a f*ck about Iraq. He wants Iraq to descend into chaos and he will kill as many Iraqis as possible to make this happen. They kill Multinational Forces when they can, but there focus is moslty on killing Iraqis.

3. Nationalistic Iraqis. There are Iraqis like Khalid and Raed who simply don't like the fact that the Coalition Forces, a group from outside, removed Saddam. I understand this to some extent. But why support the Baathists and Zarqawi? That puts the idea of "national feeling" on its head. The Baathists don't give a shit about "national sentiment." They want to rule again. Zarqawi, as I said, spends each and every day planning how he can kill more Iraqis. I think this third group is suffering from what we call "cognitive dissonance."

What do they want? While most Iraqis want to use this opportuntity to bring a stable democracy and prosperity to their country, this group simply wants to kill these people who removed Saddam and force them to leave their country. This group has NO plan for what would happen the day after the Mulitnational Forces left Iraq. If Civil War erupted, I guess, they would be happy because it wasn't an "outside group" in Iraq. Don't mention to them that their enemy Iran next door would love nothing more than an American retreat and Iraq torn apart by a civil war. Iraqis would soon have to deal with Mullahs who haven't forgotten that little 8-year war and the millions of dead Iranians by Saddam's army.

Okay, so I see these groups comprising the "insurgency." Do the three groups work together? I guess to some extent they must. Is there something they all share? I don't know. I know that if the Coalition Forces did leave, they would turn their "long knives" on each other.

Now it's everyone else's turn. Do you agree? Disagree?

Khalid?

Anon.?

*

 
#12/18/2004 12:28:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Will the long knives come out? May everyone hope not. But hope is not enough to prevent that from happening. Every day that looks more and more like the sad outcome. Or am I wrong?

 
#12/18/2004 02:23:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Missing from Jeffrey's typologies of who is in / supporting the resistance in Iraq are the following, thousands of whom may have once had no particular ideological position about US occupation:

a) People detained and tortured by Americans, including whole male populations of small villages, people caught up in random sweeps and checkpoints, people detained as a consequence of old score settling by informants working for the Americans, people detained as a consequence of informants fabricating allegations to earn money from Americans and people detained because of flawed American intelligence.

b) Relatives and loved ones of the above.

c) The relatives and loved ones of the tens of thousands who have died under American bombs, who have been riddled with bullets at checkpoints, who have been shot to death by US troops who blaze away at anything that moves when they come under attack, who have been killed by racist American thugs in uniform who kill people on house raids, who kill people in their streets, homes and gardens and who make little attempt to conceal their contempt for Iraqis and Iraqi lives. Perhaps Jeffrey is ignorant of Iraqi cultural responses to the murder of their loved ones.

d) Iraqis who have watched the appointment of corrupt officials by Americans, who have suffered poverty and joblessness as a consequence of cliques being appointed to positions of power who are discriminatory, sectarian and vindictive and who have filled thousands of posts with relatives, friends and political supporters.

e) Iraqis who have undergone the collective punishment of having power, water and telephone supplies cut by Americans and used as bargaining chips to obtain community acceptance of American domination, American controlled appointees and the breaking of Iraqis' spirits.

f) Iraqis who have lost loved ones to treatable injuries thanks to American roadblocks, attacks on ambulances and hospitals and mistreatment of persons accompanying injured people to medical centers, clinics and hospitals.

g) Iraqis who are experiencing real hardship, sickness, hunger and fuel poverty thanks to American imposed policies that have made millions jobless, driven up prices, created shortages, are set to withdraw the meager food and fuel ration that is absolutely essential to over 25% of the population, that have destroyed factories, offices and workshops, that import hundreds of thousands of foreign workers and deny Iraqis work, that allocate billions of dollars to US corporations of which miniscule amounts trickle down to the Iraqi people, that sectarianize certain employment opportunities and create social divisions where none existed before other such corrupt behavior that is known to and spoken of by millions of Iraqi people.

h) Iraqis who have been utterly horrified by the destruction to Najaf, Fallujah and other places, particularly the damage done to historically sacred places and mosques.

i) Iraqis who have burned with shame and rage at the behavior of US house raiding parties who have, apart from killing innocents on such raids, shown gross disrespect to Iraqi women, to the elderly and to children. The unleashing of dogs in Iraqi homes, the use of dogs to search women and men, the destruction to and theft of property by US troops, the confiscation of legal, life savings by US troops, the cursing laced, violent aggression that accompanies such raids, the taking of innocent family members as hostages to coerce wanted people into surrendering themselves, the demolition of homes as punishment, the destruction of crops and orchards and the killing of livestock, the wiring off of entire villages and the dehumanizing treatment of inhabitants are all further actions that drive people into membership of or support for the resistance.

j) Friends, relations or inhabitants of, particularly, Sadr City, Najaf, Samarra, Ramadi, Fallujah, Tal Afar, Baquoba, Latifiyah and numerous other towns and villages where American troops have killed indiscriminately and caused wanton damage.

k)Iraqis who know of all these things and who watch, read and listen to the American lies about them.

l) Those Iraqis who have seen the economic reasons underlying illegal American interference with Iraq's constitution and laws that have no other rationale than to open up Iraq's oil industry to sale to and ownership by American corporations and to create a dependency upon American suppliers in other key areas of economic life such as agriculture.

m) Those Iraqis who were and are enraged by the American contempt for their history and culture that permitted American forces to stand by guarding the Iraqi oil fields and oil ministry while priceless pieces of Iraq's cultural heritage were looted, stolen and destroyed.

n) Those Iraqis who saw just how real the American excuse for war based upon alleged weapons of mass destruction was as American troops stood by and permitted the looting of thousands of tons of high explosives and other weaponry that is now being used in Iraq on a daily basis.

There are other typologies in addition to the above who have been recruited to the resistance by the actions of Americans and that is before we even consider the position of those who, before an American boot ever hovered over an Iraqi head, opposed the illegal, immoral attack on Iraq and who saw through the lies and verbal shifts of the American administration as it twisted and turned to sell the idea of attacking Iraq to the world and to its own people. Until Jeffrey begins to acknowledge the part that Americans have played in creating, nurturing and spreading the resistance in Iraq via their violence, their brutality and their contempt for the Iraqi people his triple typology is as useless and innaccurate as his arguments.

 
#12/18/2004 03:06:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Anon.,

I'm interested in what you've written about the insurgents in Iraq, but before we begin could you turn around and lower your pants?

Good.

Whoa! I don't think I've ever seen panties that snug in a crack before. Whew!

Hey, as a guy you shouldn't be wearing panties anyway. Okay, okay, let me help. Steady now! Let me see if I can dislodge them from your crack. SNAAAAAAAP!! All right! They're out. How does that feel? Better? See, I told you so. Okay, let's proceed.

Basically you want me to include a group of Iraqis in the insurgency who want to kill IP, ING, and Mulitnational Forces because of perceived wrongs done by these three groups, right? Okay, I think that's a good idea.

Tomorrow on my weblog I'm putting up a entry on the insurgents in Iraq and I will add your suggestions.

Check it out tomorrow (or late tonight around midnight):

Iraqi Bloggers Central.

Oh, but ought to turn down the "Sturm and Drang" of your comments a few decibels. Just a thought.

*

 
#12/18/2004 03:47:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeffrey as a FEMALE I find your comments disgusting and offensive. If I was a male I would think them equally low class. Your sick and rude reply where apart from the crudity of your language you resort to crudely attempting to classify matters of fact as perceptions, as if the dead, tortured, imprisoned and otherwise abused are matters of opinion not realities that have happened to real people is, I would suggest, a sign of some deeper sickness on your part than whatever it is that makes you conduct discussion is such a gross manner. I certainly have no wishes to hear more from you or to lower myself to reading more of your dirty words. You do not want debate you are disgusting.

 
#12/18/2004 04:27:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Anon.,

I've got THREE syllables for you.

LA

DEE

DA

*

Hey, don't get me wrong. I've got nothing against panties. I like my wife's panties -- on her.

Lighten up, sugar. Oh yeah, make sure to stop by my blog later tonight, okay? I took your advice. YOU changed my life. Wow! Be PROUD of yourself. Let GO of the self-loathing. It will just ruin your face as you age. Don't let that bitterness rest in your soul.

Swami Jeffrey -- Bates Motel

*

 
#12/18/2004 04:51:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Anon.,

>gross manner

Hold it, hold it, hold it!

"Gross"?

Okay, do your Mom and Dad know that you're on the computer?

*

 
#12/18/2004 07:55:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

No wonder nobody wants to talk to Jeffrey. What a jerk. Still, he's only showing himself up when he behaves that way.

 
#12/18/2004 08:18:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Just one thing Anonymous, who looted the museums? Was it Americans? No, it was Iraqis - is that a reflection on Americans, that the Iraqis steal? Sure the Americans protected the oil fields because they believed the oil would be the primary target of Saddam's nutcases - just like in the previous war. The coalition forces cannot be everywhere at once - what about Iraqis using their wherewithal to guard the deposits of munitions located in Iraq - it isn't like they don't all have guns! There are two sides to all of your arguments, and sorry, but your side loses.

Just take Jeffrey's comments with a little humour on the side - maybe a little difficult with your head in the clouds - remember, every story has two sides! Joanne

 
#12/18/2004 09:50:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne under international law who has the responsibility for maintaining law and order and safeguarding the rights and property of citizens when an invading force has overrun a country and shattered its own defense and security forces? That's right, the occupying power. Maybe you live in cloud cuckoo land with Jeffrey as your logic and acceptance of his base humor seem to put you in the same team. In America during blackouts and floods looting is something that occurs. It happens in many places when natural disasters strike. It isn't something that's peculiar to Iraqis, there are American looters too and others around the world who take advantage of a policing vaccum or a natural calamity. So your argument falls down flat in the face of the facts that America, having planned a war and in the knowledge that native law-and-order forces would be inoperative (and it wasn't long before the Americans disbanded Iraqi forces anyway), failed to honor its obligations under law and provide adequate security. That's either weak planning or deliberate disregard for the heritage of Iraq. For all your attempts to deflect responsibility the facts are that America, as occupier, was responsible for security. You don't seem too familiar with the Geneva Conventions and you appear too ready to offer excuses or justifications for American failings. Perhaps you should take your own head out of wherever you have it lodged and confront the fact that you are relying on propaganda rather than any legal or moral assessment to rest your flimsy case upon. To be honest with you, the fact that you think Jeffrey's rudeness is in any way light hearted when it is crass vulgarity and an offensive way to respond to anybody doesn't actually make your lack of moral understanding all that surprising. The responsibility for maintaining law and order rested with the USA and it failed to do so. Try withdrawing the cops from New York and see what happens. I'm sure, beyond blaming the inevitable hordes of looters, you would question why those in authority permitted such a disgraceful lack of protection for the city's people and cultural treasures. You can blame Iraqis all you wish but if you do you are only failing to address American responsibility. It isn't particularly patriotic to defend your own country's wrongdoings and if you persist in such an approach you are only making your tales of benign liberation ring even more hollow.

 
#12/18/2004 09:50:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne under international law who has the responsibility for maintaining law and order and safeguarding the rights and property of citizens when an invading force has overrun a country and shattered its own defense and security forces? That's right, the occupying power. Maybe you live in cloud cuckoo land with Jeffrey as your logic and acceptance of his base humor seem to put you in the same team. In America during blackouts and floods looting is something that occurs. It happens in many places when natural disasters strike. It isn't something that's peculiar to Iraqis, there are American looters too and others around the world who take advantage of a policing vaccum or a natural calamity. So your argument falls down flat in the face of the facts that America, having planned a war and in the knowledge that native law-and-order forces would be inoperative (and it wasn't long before the Americans disbanded Iraqi forces anyway), failed to honor its obligations under law and provide adequate security. That's either weak planning or deliberate disregard for the heritage of Iraq. For all your attempts to deflect responsibility the facts are that America, as occupier, was responsible for security. You don't seem too familiar with the Geneva Conventions and you appear too ready to offer excuses or justifications for American failings. Perhaps you should take your own head out of wherever you have it lodged and confront the fact that you are relying on propaganda rather than any legal or moral assessment to rest your flimsy case upon. To be honest with you, the fact that you think Jeffrey's rudeness is in any way light hearted when it is crass vulgarity and an offensive way to respond to anybody doesn't actually make your lack of moral understanding all that surprising. The responsibility for maintaining law and order rested with the USA and it failed to do so. Try withdrawing the cops from New York and see what happens. I'm sure, beyond blaming the inevitable hordes of looters, you would question why those in authority permitted such a disgraceful lack of protection for the city's people and cultural treasures. You can blame Iraqis all you wish but if you do you are only failing to address American responsibility. It isn't particularly patriotic to defend your own country's wrongdoings and if you persist in such an approach you are only making your tales of benign liberation ring even more hollow.

 
#12/18/2004 09:54:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Apologies for double post, I got an error message on the first attempt. If it is possible to delete the extra post and this one hopefully I will not have disrupted this blog too much.

 
#12/18/2004 06:11:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Friday, 17 December 2004.

Al-Fallujah.

Calm prevails as Americans try silly psychological warfare tricks.

In contrast to previous days, the situation in and around al-Fallujah on Friday was extremely peaceful, Mafkarat al-Islam reported in a dispatch posted at 11:55pm Friday night Mecca time.

All places in the city were calm. No firefights or aerial attacks were reported. At 11am local time Friday, the US forces released an appeal to the Resistance fighters in the southern half of al-Fallujah, broadcast via a large microphone which said: “To all the gunmen holed up in the south of the city, we advise you to give yourselves up. You will be treated well. We guarantee you will receive a just trial according to Iraqi law and with no bloodshed.”

Resistance fighters paid no attention to the American call, other than to respond with a declaration of their own, broadcast from the loudspeakers on some of the city’s mosques. The Resistance statement said: “Peace be upon whoever follows guidance. To the occupation forces, offspring of apes and pigs, we advise you to give yourselves up. We have not crossed the ocean. We have not murdered anyone, and we didn’t start this. Therefore, if you give yourselves up, your punishment will be death. And if you do not give yourselves up your punishment will also be death. You can take your appeal and stuff it in your pockets because we are not going to die the way the stooges died.”

Commenting on the American appeal, Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi said: “After God granted that the fighters repulse two violent attacks by the American forces – attacks that some military commanders said were of the strength of that launched against the capital Baghdad at the start of the war – and after we have broken our enemy in al-Fallujah, the American forces are now taking up this Zionist method to try to convince the fighters to surrender, after they despaired of getting them to surrender by force. This is the greatest proof that they have been broken militarily.”

In addition to issuing its silly appeal, the Americans gave the Resistance a period of three hours in which to “consider” their response to the “offer.” The Resistance response to that deadline was to fire thirty-two 60mm mortar rounds at the American troop concentrations north of al-Fallujah and northeast in the agricultural area. The Resistance also fired fifty-four 82mm and 120mm mortar rounds at US troop concentrations to the east of the city.

Also during that three-hour period, a young Syrian named Abu Musharraf as-Suri carried out a martyrdom guerrilla operation. He put on an explosive belt and headed towards the US forces raising a white rag in his hands. Three Marines met him at the restaurants in the al-Jumhuriyah neighborhood. When Abu Musharraf was two meters from the three Marines, he blew himself up, killing the Americans instantly.

Resistance seizes great quantities of US weapons after crushing Thursday’s US assault on al-Fallujah.

The official spokesman for the Iraqi Resistance in al-Fallujah, Shaykh Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi told Mafkarat al-Islam in al-Fallujah that the Resistance seized a very huge amount of US equipment abandoned by US forces after their attack on the city collapsed on Thursday.

Ad-Dulaymi told Mafkarat al-Islam that Resistance forces captured 181 light, medium, and heavy machineguns. Pumpaction weapons, considered among the most important in modern fighting were among the arms seized from the Americans.

The Resistance also took possession of 194 body shields, stripped from Americans killed in the fighting. Some of the body armor had been pierced through by the bullets of the Resistance fighters.

Also captured were 61 scopes, as well as compasses, spears and knives, as well as money found by the Resistance fighters in the pockets of the dead Americans.

Ad-Dulaymi said that the Resistance had seized 63 Abrams tanks and Bradely armored vehicles, as well as 50 other various vehicles, including Humvees and troop transports. The Resistance also shot down one US Black Hawk helicopter in an-Nu‘aymiyah, south of al-Fallujah.

As to the losses suffered by the Resistance, 21 Resistance fighters died as martyrs and 42 others were injured. Three Resistance rocket launchers, four 120mm mortars and one 82mm mortar were destroyed.

The al-Fallujah correspondent of Mafkarat al-Islam reported that local eyewitnesses said that one of the Resistance commanders said that Friday also was a “great day.” “Yesterday we were more concentrated,” he said, “and the number of dead Americans yesterday might be more than the number killed day before yesterday Wednesday, or if not then they were not much less.”

On an earlier occasion, Abu As‘ad ad-Dulaymi had said that 500 Americans had died in the fighting on Wednesday.

 
#12/18/2004 08:16:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Someone please re-tune Alvaros frequency.

He and the Anonymous are on the same wavelength. Cloud Cuckoo Land. Anons post reads like a Michael Moore script.

The world is falling apart, and it's all YOUR fault.


PH 101

 
#12/18/2004 08:32:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

“The Americans just wanted to free the Iraqi people from a lunatic - Saddam - and make the world a safer place”

OK Joanne, Let us take the donkey where his owner wants!! If the reason for making a safer world was to get rid of Saddam and his sons and not beacuase of the WMD ar connections to AlQaida, was an invasion and killing of innocant people (again from both sides!!) was necessary, was it not enough just sending someone to actually assasinate him…you can still liberate the Iraqis without all this bloodshed, you would have still appointed a pupput government, and therefore had total control over our resources, so why did you opt for a war if it wasn’t to make sure that you keep Isreal safe and to annoy the saudis??
So why don’t you get down on your knees and beg God to give you a brain.

 
#12/18/2004 11:28:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Why can't an Anonymous give themselves a name or sign with a name - I'll never know. First to the 4:32 Anonymous, sorry, but I have a brain!

What, does there have to be only one reason to go into Iraq, there were many, just as there are many reasons to do anything, but ridding of Saddam would certainly start the process of Iraq's healing. Tell me, why couldn't the Iraqis figure out how to assinate Saddam on their own - exactly - the same reason the Americans were unable to. The level of paranoia and ratting out one's own family was too high - but hey, I guess turning in your own relatives was a notch in the belt of the morality of the Iraqis who did this. Just face it, the Americans went in to do what you and the Iraqi people were incapable of doing - suck it up!

So, we are annoying the Saudis, oh, cry me a river! Unbelievable! Joanne

 
#12/18/2004 11:35:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Alvaro, thanks for the motivational speech, but who exactly are you trying to motivate - most Iraqis are illiterate and have no internet access, so are you crying out to the nutjobs in Syria and Iran and/or in America. Makes me wonder! Joanne

 
#12/18/2004 11:52:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous 5:50 POSTING - Tell me, who is responsible for the actions of each Iraqi citizen - is an individual responsible for their own actions or are the Americans responsible for the actions of each Iraqi. I suppose you think it is the fault of the Americans that the terrorists kill innocent Iraqi men, women, and children - you know you do! Why can't people like you own up to that fact that the terrorists in Iraq, murdering innocent people, are the cause of all Iraqis' problems. So called insurgents/terrorists do not kill their own people to make a point to the American's that they want them to leave - this is BS at its finest! Tell me, who offers excuses or justifications for the failings of the terrorists - you do, that's who! You wouldn't recognize someone with high moral standards 'cause you have nothing to base them on and until God opens your eyes, you will be blind. The coalition forces are liberators, not occupiers, that's your name for them, not mine. Joanne

 
#12/19/2004 12:49:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne, your response to my 5.50 post does not in any way honestly address the question of the legal obligation of the Americans as an occupying power to provide security. This obligation is not the product of any idiosyncratic views on my part, it is clearly laid down in the Geneva Conventions. So, you fail to answer honestly, you fail to acknowledge American failings, you failed to think logically and rationally and you fail to apportion responsibility. So far so good. Next your response degenerates into an increasingly hysterical attack upon my views based not on any views that I have posted but on your suggestions of what you think my opinions are. Instead of dealing with what I have actually posted you invent things to attack me about. This is neither honest nor fair and as an example of your peculiar morality it is enough to demonstrate that you are incapable of honest debate. An honest, rational person addresses what has been posted. They do not fabricate the views of another poster in order to attack them. You failed to address the facts of my posts and you succeeded, in your invention, in showing that you have to resort to dishonesty to conceal your lack of reasoned analysis.

Nowhere have I ever posted that the Iraqi resistance has not killed innocent people. Nowhere at all. Nowhere either have you posted the fact that in orders of magnitude the Americans have killed tens and tens and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi men, women and children and have therefore a far bloodier record in this regard than the Iraqi resistance. Which is a fact. Instead of hysterical fabrication of posters comments why don't you try dealing with facts? It seems that this approach is novel, even alien to you, but it would help you to understand the feelings of Iraqis if you were more honest in your analysis and did not try to conceal American responsibility for killings and wrongdoing.

I have not even raised the question of there being no Iraqi resistance if there had been no American invasion. I have not mentioned how, for Iraqi women, personal and social freedoms has been retarded by the American invasion and occupation. Despite the 'female quota' applying to the electoral process it is the case that female candidates are almost entirely traditional, hijab wearing religious conservatives and the future, life opportunities, freedom of movement, dress and thought of Iraqi women have been set back by America's so-called liberation. It may shock you but many Iraqi women actually enjoy the equality that working in and for the Iraqi resistance gives them. It is more of a life than the purdah awaiting them under America's 'new Iraq' offers them.

It seems, Joanne, that you are only interested in offering excuses and justifications for America's attack on and occupation of Iraq. Your rush to deny, ignore or reject the facts of that aggression as they affect Iraqis is not really helping you to listen to the actual feelings and experience of real live Iraqis. It is strange that you react to the responses of people you claim to wish see 'liberated' in the way you do. Denying that what has happened to them has happened and denying American responsibility for what America has done and has failed to do is not the best way for you to understand Iraqis. Unless you are not really interested, of course, but only interested in posting propaganda and ignoring realities.

 
#12/19/2004 07:53:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous,

"It may shock you but many Iraqi women actually enjoy the equality that working in and for the Iraqi resistance gives them. It is more of a life than the purdah awaiting them under America's 'new Iraq' offers them." by Anonymous

I certainly read you well didn't I.

"I have not even raised the question of there being no Iraqi resistance if there had been no American invasion." by Anonymous

You didn't have to; one doesn't have to speak up or not speak up at all to know who they support.

You are a supporter of the insurgents - how nice! So you are directly or indirectly responsible for the killing of innocent Iraqi ING, IP, men, women and children - how proud you must feel.

You have no facts - just biased-based guess-timates! I support those who support life and liberty, not death, and control. You are evil, will die as you have lived, and will burn in hell!

While you murder, I will continue to grieve for the coaltion troops and the innocent Iraqi people. God have mercy on your soul. Joanne

 
#12/19/2004 08:38:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

I'm not the Anonymous peraon you just replied to Joanne but couldn't they reply to you "You are a supporter of the Americans. So you are indirectly or directly responsible for all the innocent Iraqi men, women and children they have killed"? It seems to me that you're dividing up the dead and saying those killed by the insurgents are innocent while those killed by Americans either don't exist or you don't want to acknowledge them.

 
#12/19/2004 10:50:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous - another no name; it is really easy to sign a name. No, I do not support the killing of any innocent Iraqi - man, woman, or child. Tell me, who, when the Americans go out into the streets of Iraq, exactly who are they killing? Who are they after? They are after the terrorists/insurgents - same bloody thing. When Americans are handing out candy, and a suicide bomber blows themselves up and kills tens of children, who is at fault? If you answered the Americans, then we will never be on the same wave length. Always blame the Americans it seems. Yes, innocents have been killed by American bombs, as in Fallujah before its major assault, but tell me, why do terrorists go home to sleep, knowing full well they will be targeted by the Americans? Why do they knowingly put their families at risk - could it be because they just finished killing another Iraqi family's children and they just don't give a damn about those children or their own. I support the Americans in liberating the Iraqis, now let's hope the Iraqis seize this opportunity to live in freedom, so the coalition troops can go home - where they want to be! Joanne

 
#12/19/2004 08:31:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous-

What region of your brain will not allow proper sequence of events to fall into place without you blemishing and tarnishing. Your collective memory of the past since the fall of Husayn is far out of kilter with reality.

I suppose it could be considered coming from the same faulty region that will not allow you to look back about 60 years to the end of WWll, the rise of Germany, Japan. Those two countries also were propped-up, built, given succor by the US. "Puppets" were also installed and nurtured in those states. Perhaps a person with your perversity would continue to call them "Puppets" or "Occupied".

What is so lacking within the Iraqi people that you cannot give them a future? What is it about the US that you hate so desperately that you would even give legitimacy to an insurgency that destroys its own people?

What kind of fool denies his own people the right to self-determination? What kind of fool? What kind of fool are you?
....and yes, I'm laughing at you, Not Anonymous.

Elie

 
#12/19/2004 09:09:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Papa Ray

Interesting argument, but its driven by emotion and false concepts along with just plain ignorance on the mindset of the Middle East. Yes all of it, the Arabs and the other Tribes, including the Iraqi.

It would be worth everyone reading the speech at this link.

http://2slick.blogspot.com/2004/12/speech-by-haim-harari.html

Read it a couple of times at least. Try to keep your emotions out of it and try to understand what he is saying. Fact check his speech, talk to others about it, and yes, argue about it too.

But then try and do something about it, you will find that hundreds of years of culture and circumstance are not going to be changed overnight. Not even changed in five years, ten years, thirty years. Maybe after fifty or more years things will start to change.

Its dishearting is'nt it?

Its scary is'nt it?

Its the way it is.

This is my post

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

 
#12/20/2004 12:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne, In response to Jeffrey's simplistic post breaking the Iraqi resistance into three groups I posted a response giving several other groupings and motivations for people joining or supporting the resistance. You answered with an incorrect argument about the consequences of the American failure to discharge its responsibility for providing security. America's failure to live up to its international obligations certainly did contribute to the lawlessness that saw priceless elements of Iraq's cultural heritage looted and destroyed. I asked you to address this fact and in passing noted that some women joined and supported the resistance because the invasion and occupation have resulted in them losing personal freedoms. I also noted the existence of the argument that there would be no Iraqi resistance if Iraq had not been attacked and occupied. Nothing I have said is incorrect and nothing I have said is a claim by me that I support killings of any sort. I posted facts, facts that you might be uncomfortable with but facts all the same. They are not guesses, not biased views, not propaganda but simple facts. All the American actions I referred to, actions that have produced anger and increased the numbers of Iraqis joining or supporting the resistance are documented facts. They are facts that can be found in books, in media articles and in the testimony of Americans and Iraqis alike.

Your response to these facts has been one of hysteria. Papa Ray is correct about emotions, your cursing me and once again falsely accusing me of 'thinking things' that are the products of your imagination are things that suggest that your emotional health is not good. I challenge you to read my posts and provide a single comment that demonstrates either support for murder or advocacy of murder. If explaining why American violence has fuelled the resistance in Iraq is something you find outrageous I think that says more about your own inability to think logically and honestly. Since March 2003 thousands have died under American bombs. Hundreds have been killed at checkpoints. In the attack on Baghdad in April 2003 hundreds, perhaps thousands, were killed in their cars as they tried to flee the city. Thousands have been killed in attacks on Iraqi cities, towns and villages. Thousands more people have been injured in these attacks. Tens of thousands have been arrested. Many of been severely ill treated. Thousands of homes have been raided. Millions of Iraqis are without work, amenities, food and fuel. Sectarian divisions have been exploited and heightened. Whether you like it or not America and America alone is responsible for the deaths, the injuries, the arrests, the raids and the policies that resulted in unemployment, hunger and cold. The fact that by American admission between 70-90% of the people arrested were innocent of any wrongdoing does not make their arrests or the brutal circumstances in which they occurred disappear from the memories of Iraqis. And there have been thefts of property by Americans and other behaviors by them that are offensive to Muslim Iraqis whether Sunni or Shia. Spokespersons for Iraq's Christians are on record as saying that they were safer before America attacked Iraq. These are facts.

The usual American response is to talk of the few bad apples committing wrongdoings and to claim that they are being dealt with. It is wrong, say Americans, to judge the many by the wrongdoing of the few. Yet these same Americans try to justify and defend the killings of thousands of Iraqis and the injury done to millions more by pointing to the wrongdoings of Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. Do not blame all Americans for the wrongs of a few, say Americans, and do not complain if if millions of Iraqis are punished for the wrongdoings of a few.

Joanne I am not going to burn anywhere as I am a good and a decent person. You are going to walk through this world in a fog because you cannot honestly deal with simple facts, you cannot see the consequences of American violence and your hysterical reaction to someone who posts an assessment that is more accurate than your own poor understanding is not the mark of a person who is able to honestly discuss or understand things as they are. Your abuse is not the first time that Iraqis have been attacked on the basis of American ignorance, lies, hypocrisy and faulty intelligence is it?

As you are so abusive this exchange may now be considered over. A mind like yours does not seem capable of hearing what others have to say or understanding what others are actually experiencing. Nor, obviously, is it capable of honestly accepting any part of American responsibility for the horrors engulfing Iraq.

 
#12/20/2004 12:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne, In response to Jeffrey's simplistic post breaking the Iraqi resistance into three groups I posted a response giving several other groupings and motivations for people joining or supporting the resistance. You answered with an incorrect argument about the consequences of the American failure to discharge its responsibility for providing security. America's failure to live up to its international obligations certainly did contribute to the lawlessness that saw priceless elements of Iraq's cultural heritage looted and destroyed. I asked you to address this fact and in passing noted that some women joined and supported the resistance because the invasion and occupation have resulted in them losing personal freedoms. I also noted the existence of the argument that there would be no Iraqi resistance if Iraq had not been attacked and occupied. Nothing I have said is incorrect and nothing I have said is a claim by me that I support killings of any sort. I posted facts, facts that you might be uncomfortable with but facts all the same. They are not guesses, not biased views, not propaganda but simple facts. All the American actions I referred to, actions that have produced anger and increased the numbers of Iraqis joining or supporting the resistance are documented facts. They are facts that can be found in books, in media articles and in the testimony of Americans and Iraqis alike.

Your response to these facts has been one of hysteria. Papa Ray is correct about emotions, your cursing me and once again falsely accusing me of 'thinking things' that are the products of your imagination are things that suggest that your emotional health is not good. I challenge you to read my posts and provide a single comment that demonstrates either support for murder or advocacy of murder. If explaining why American violence has fuelled the resistance in Iraq is something you find outrageous I think that says more about your own inability to think logically and honestly. Since March 2003 thousands have died under American bombs. Hundreds have been killed at checkpoints. In the attack on Baghdad in April 2003 hundreds, perhaps thousands, were killed in their cars as they tried to flee the city. Thousands have been killed in attacks on Iraqi cities, towns and villages. Thousands more people have been injured in these attacks. Tens of thousands have been arrested. Many of been severely ill treated. Thousands of homes have been raided. Millions of Iraqis are without work, amenities, food and fuel. Sectarian divisions have been exploited and heightened. Whether you like it or not America and America alone is responsible for the deaths, the injuries, the arrests, the raids and the policies that resulted in unemployment, hunger and cold. The fact that by American admission between 70-90% of the people arrested were innocent of any wrongdoing does not make their arrests or the brutal circumstances in which they occurred disappear from the memories of Iraqis. And there have been thefts of property by Americans and other behaviors by them that are offensive to Muslim Iraqis whether Sunni or Shia. Spokespersons for Iraq's Christians are on record as saying that they were safer before America attacked Iraq. These are facts.

The usual American response is to talk of the few bad apples committing wrongdoings and to claim that they are being dealt with. It is wrong, say Americans, to judge the many by the wrongdoing of the few. Yet these same Americans try to justify and defend the killings of thousands of Iraqis and the injury done to millions more by pointing to the wrongdoings of Saddam Hussein and his henchmen. Do not blame all Americans for the wrongs of a few, say Americans, and do not complain if if millions of Iraqis are punished for the wrongdoings of a few.

Joanne I am not going to burn anywhere as I am a good and a decent person. You are going to walk through this world in a fog because you cannot honestly deal with simple facts, you cannot see the consequences of American violence and your hysterical reaction to someone who posts an assessment that is more accurate than your own poor understanding is not the mark of a person who is able to honestly discuss or understand things as they are. Your abuse is not the first time that Iraqis have been attacked on the basis of American ignorance, lies, hypocrisy and faulty intelligence is it?

As you are so abusive this exchange may now be considered over. A mind like yours does not seem capable of hearing what others have to say or understanding what others are actually experiencing. Nor, obviously, is it capable of honestly accepting any part of American responsibility for the horrors engulfing Iraq.

 
#12/20/2004 02:00:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

"Joanne, In response to Jeffrey's simplistic post breaking the Iraqi resistance into three groups I posted a response giving several other groupings and motivations for people joining or supporting the resistance. You answered with an incorrect argument about the consequences of the American failure to discharge its responsibility for providing security. America's failure to live up to its international obligations certainly did contribute to the lawlessness that saw priceless elements of Iraq's cultural heritage looted and destroyed." by Anonymous

Tell me. how does the US have international obligations if you think they conducted an illegal war? You can't have it both ways - make up your mind!

"I asked you to address this fact and in passing noted that some women joined and supported the resistance because the invasion and occupation have resulted in them losing personal freedoms." by Anonymous

I believe you said the women enjoyed it, but nevertheless, extremely sick on their and your part. How exactly would you know this, if you did not have some knowledge from affiliation with them? Why haven't you turned them into the authorities? If, you have knowledge of these women and are aware of their crimes, then you are guilty by affiliation - you are an accomplice.

"I also noted the existence of the argument that there would be no Iraqi resistance if Iraq had not been attacked and occupied. Nothing I have said is incorrect and nothing I have said is a claim by me that I support killings of any sort." by Anonymous

First, Iraq was liberated, then the Sunni Baathist, Syrians, Iranian, Saudis, Jordanians, and others, have turned Iraq into a hell hole where the last thing they want is to lose their power and privileges - Baathists, or want democracy in the ME - all the others.

"I posted facts, facts that you might be uncomfortable with but facts all the same." They are not guesses, not biased views, not propaganda but simple facts. All the American actions I referred to, actions that have produced anger and increased the numbers of Iraqis joining or supporting the resistance are documented facts." by Anonymous

You have no facts, no documentation - Iraqis do not even record their deaths, no nothing, - just, what is in your mind. Angered Iraqis do not join the insurgency/terrorism - only those who chose to murder their own people, join this insurgency/terrorism.


"Your response to these facts has been one of hysteria. Papa Ray is correct about emotions, your cursing me and once again falsely accusing me of 'thinking things' that are the products of your imagination are things that suggest that your emotional health is not good." by Anonymous

I am always calm - no hysteria - just quiet resolve and calm. To curse is to swear - I did not curse you - do not lie! Now that is somewhat funny!

Since March 2003 thousands have died under American bombs. ..... Whether you like it or not America and America alone is responsible for the deaths, the injuries, the arrests, the raids and the policies that resulted in unemployment, hunger and cold." by Anonymous

Right, and the insurgency has no responsibility at all! Broken record here.....

"Spokespersons for Iraq's Christians are on record as saying that they were safer before America attacked Iraq. These are facts." by Anonymous

And exactly why do they feel less safe now? I think if you look to who are persecuting them, you will come to the realization, that the insurgency is not handing out candy.

"It is wrong, say Americans, to judge the many by the wrongdoing of the few. Yet these same Americans try to justify and defend the killings of thousands of Iraqis and the injury done to millions more by pointing to the wrongdoings of Saddam Hussein and his henchmen." by Anonymous

First, don't get carried away with your inability to determine the number of dead and injured because you have no facts, but you need to remember that freedom comes at a price, always has and always will, and the price has been paid in blood by the remains of those found in mass graves and in blood by those who fight for their freedom today.

"As you are so abusive this exchange may now be considered over." by Anonymous

Don't start feeling guilty now - Jesus will forgive your sins if you are truly sorry and turn away from evil!

"A mind like yours does not seem capable of hearing what others have to say or understanding what others are actually experiencing. Nor, obviously, is it capable of honestly accepting any part of American responsibility for the horrors engulfing Iraq." by Anonymous

I am compassionate and strong, my conviction unwavering, and no crap leaving your keyboard will ever sway me from supporting the Iraqi people's desire and right to breathe freedom and no longer live under oppression manipulated through fear and gruesome torture and death. I believe you have failed to listen, hear, and understand the cries that have gone and go out from the Iraqi people. How is it you can sympathize with the Iraqi women's plight with finding equality and enjoyment by being part of the insurgency/terrorism. Does the equality of wearing a suidice belt truly give these women some sense of enjoyment and fulfillment? Unadulterated Evil!

God have Mercy on Your Soul. Over and Out. Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 02:19:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Iraq's Silent Majority

 
#12/20/2004 02:33:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Joanne you have been rather emotional and hysterical in your treatment of the poster above. They haven't posted anything that hasn't been published in the media in America and elsewhere. Do you mean to say that journalists and editors must have an affiliation with insurgents because they report what they say and that newspaper readers and TV viewers must have an affiliation with insurgents because they read or listen to what they say? What kind of response is yours? Jumping all over someone because they post what you can find in the press or on the internet? Just how far do you think that kind of attititude will get you? Or do you think you're attacking terrorists on a blog? Get real Joanne and try to be a bit cooler or you're killing any chance we have of dialogue with people who see things differently. I don't think the poster devoted enough attention to insurgent killings but that isn't what they were writing about. I guess they were answering Jeffrey when you jumped in and they stuck to their arguments about why people feel pissed off with the USA. A lot of it seems obvious and if it happened to you I'm sure you wouldn't like it. Your response just alienates people and stifles debate so think twice before you decide what people think and pay more attention to what they are saying otherwise blogs like this will just get killed by people who do what you do. You can disagree with people without telling them they're going to burn in hell and accusing them of being terrorists. That's dumb and makes you look bad. Give it some thought.

 
#12/20/2004 03:06:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

"Jesus will forgive your sins" Joanne

Very sensitive Joanne. Everyone posting here must be a Christian mustn't they? Or maybe you're going to convert them all with 2000 pound bombs? I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have bothered being born if he thought that your idea of missionary work was going to catch on. You don't do respecting others very well do you?

 
#12/20/2004 03:27:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

“You are evil, will die as you have lived, and will burn in hell!” Joanne 3.53pm.


“I am always calm - no hysteria - just quiet resolve and calm. To curse is to swear - I did not curse you - do not lie! Now that is somewhat funny!” Joanne 10.00am.

Definitions of ‘to curse’.

“Angered Iraqis do not join the insurgency/terrorism” Joanne 10.00am.

And your evidence for this comment is? You have interviewed all the angry Iraqis and they told you this or is it just another example of the bullshit you make up? Face it Joanne you’re just a raving Christian nutjob and you haven’t got a clue what Iraqis think or do. Here’s a clue: it isn’t what you tell them they’re thinking or what you want them to be thinking it’s what they think for themselves.

 
#12/20/2004 03:28:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Okay, Allah (pbuh), God (pbuh), Budha (pbuh), Yahweh (pbuh)... whatever makes you happy.

Get the general idea, Not? Good vs Evil?


Elie

 
#12/20/2004 05:41:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Papa Ray nailed it. Too much emotion and not enough listening here. Why do people on blogs like this think they have to be rude or abusive to other posters? Why can't they just read what they say and learn about what makes them see the world the way they do? Khalid writes of corruption and ING soldiers acting arrogant. Does it have to be a straight lie or might there be some truth in it? Someone else writes of Americans doing bad stuff. Does that have to be a straight lie or might there be some truth in it? Elie writes of Good versus Evil. Are there only two sides, one good one evil? Or are there maybe several sides and there's good and evil on each? I think that's what Papa Ray means by things not being easy to look at. While people think there's no chance their side ever does anything wrong and people are telling them plain that they do there's no way on earth anyone's going to see the truth of things. If you've already made your mind up that you're right no matter what anyone else says then why bother pretending you want to learn what others think and why they think it? All the name calling and damning in the world doesn't put you in anyone else's shoes or make you fit to say that what they think isn't coming from experience. It's not Good versus Evil that's the problem but people insisting on trying to see the world as black and white. How do people expect answers if they're not really listening to others?

 
#12/20/2004 06:36:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

"You can disagree with people without telling them they're going to burn in hell and accusing them of being terrorists. That's dumb and makes you look bad. Give it some thought." by Anonymous - no name

I believe that people who accuse the Americans of every single thing that has gone wrong in Iraq, including all deaths, and then never gives any blame whatsoever to the insurgents/terrorists are evil, plain and simple, because of their lack of admission that the insurgents/terrorists are to blame for murdering innocent Iraqi men, women, and children as was done today in Najaf and Mosul. I have said that I am against the killing of any innocent Iraqi man, woman, or child, and am in no denial of any wrongdoing - however, disappointing those may be on the part of the coalition forces, so maybe it is best if you comprehend what you read.

Tell me, what kind of person supports the insurgency/terrorism, knowing their actions are to randomly kill innocents? If this makes no sense to you, then I can only feel pity and sympathy for you and the innocent victims, respectively.

People reap what they sow - I am not anyone's judge, but we will be judged nonetheless by our actions and inactions, and I believe those who do evil and support evil will burn in hell. I support no evil, by anyone. Joanne

Since you do not give yourself a name, I can presume that it is a possibility that all Anonymous's are one and the same.

 
#12/20/2004 06:47:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous - 11:06 post

"Jesus will forgive your sins" Joanne by Anonymous

Hey, just saying it how it is - bother you does it!

"I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't have bothered being born if he thought that your idea of missionary work was going to catch on. You don't do respecting others very well do you?" by Anonymous

First, I do not save people. People can believe what they like, and I respect the right for all people to have that freedom - especially those Christians in Iraq, currently being persecuted for their religious beliefs by the insurgents/terrorists, who are ....?

Jesus was born, lived, and died for the purpose of shedding his blood for our sins - tell me, who was respecting him, as he hung on that cross. You don't have to believe as I do, but I am not going to stop believing as I do, to accommodate your beliefs or lack thereof. I have no respect, whatsoever, for those who support the killing of an innocent. Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 06:50:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

WHILE JOANA IS CURSING EVERONE WHO DESAGREE WIHT HER OPINIONS...:

Baghdad - Saturday, 18 December 2004.

Resistance assaults Abu Ghurayb prison camp.

In a dispatch posted at 3pm Saturday Mecca time (4pm Saturday local time) Mafkarat al-Islam reported that Iraqi Resistance forces had launched a broad attack on the Abu Ghurayb prison camp south of Baghdad. The Resistance assault began at about 12:25pm and was still going on when the correspondent submitted his report.

Eyewitnesses reported that 100 Resistance fighters launched a fierce attack on the prison, forcing US troops to take cover inside their barracks within the compound. Resistance fighters pounded the Americans with barrages of 82mm and 120mm mortar rounds. Large crowds of people gathered outside, fearful that the Resistance bombardment might harm the prisoners. But the Resistance reassured the people that they knew the layout within the prison camp very well.

Mafkarat al-Islam’s correspondent in Baghdad reported that the Resistance had succeeded in destroying part of the walls of the prison camp, blasting a hole four meters long in the inner and outer fences – since the camp is encircled by two fences.

Reportedly the Resistance offensive was sparked by a letter from a female prisoner named Fatimah that brought the fighters to tears of rage.

Fatima’s letter, a hand written document, was recently smuggled out of Abu Ghurayb. Fatimah is the sister of one of the famous Iraqi Resistance fighters in the Abu Ghurayb area. US aggressor troops raided his house some time back but failed to find him, so they took his sister prisoner in an attempt to force him to give himself up. Their family is known for its piety and uprightness. Mafkarat al-Islam obtained a copy of the letter.

Fatima’s letter.

In the name of God, the Merciful, the Mercy-giving. “Say He is God the One; God the Source of everything; Not has He fathered, nor has He been fathered; nor is anything comparable to Him.” [Qur’an, Surat 112 “al-Ikhlas”]

I chose this noble Surah from the Book of God because it has the greatest impact on me and on all of you and it strikes a particular kind of awe in the hearts of Believers.

My brother Mujahideen in the path of God! What can I say to you? I say to you: our wombs have been filled with the children of fornication by those sons of apes and pigs who raped us. Or I could tell you that they have defaced our bodies, spit in our faces, and tore up the little copies of the Qur’an that hung around our necks? God is greatest! Can you not comprehend our situation? Is it true that you do not know what is happening to us? We are your sisters. God will be calling you to account [about this] tomorrow.

By God, we have not passed one night since we have been in prison without one of the apes and pigs jumping down upon us to rip our bodies apart with his overweening lust. And we are the ones who had guarded our virginity out of fear of God. Fear God! Kill us along with them! Destroy us along with them! Don’t leave us here to let them get pleasure from raping us! It will be an act to ennoble the Throne of Almighty God. Fear God regarding us! Leave their tanks and aircraft outside. Come at us here in the prison of Abu Ghurayb.

I am your sister in God (Fatimah). They raped me on one day more than nine times. Can you comprehend? Imagine one of your sisters being raped. Why can’t you all imagine it, as I am your sister. With me are 13 girls, all unmarried. All have been raped before the eyes and ears of everyone.

They won’t let us pray. They took our clothes and won’t let us get dressed. As I write this letter one of the girls has committed suicide. She was savagely raped. A soldier hit her on her chest and thigh after raping her. He subjected her to unbelievable torture. She beat her head against the wall of the cell until she died, for she couldn’t take any more, even though suicide is forbidden in Islam. But I excuse that girl. I have hope that God will forgive her, because He is the Most Merciful of all.

Brothers, I tell you again, fear God! Kill us with them so that we might be at peace. Help! Help! Help! [WaMu‘tasimah!]
.

This letter is ended, but the sufferings of the one who wrote it and the sufferings of her sisters along with her have not ended!!

 
#12/20/2004 07:12:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

I humped the **ll out of a Fatima once. Her fault really, the horny thing. Seems like so long ago. But really not so long. All in perspective, ya know.


Elie

 
#12/20/2004 07:13:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Anonymous - 11:27 comment

"“You are evil, will die as you have lived, and will burn in hell!” Joanne 3.53pm. “I am always calm - no hysteria - just quiet resolve and calm. To curse is to swear - I did not curse you - do not lie! Now that is somewhat funny!” Joanne 10.00am." reposted by Anonymous

I did not send evil down upon this Anonymous, nor use profanity, nor express any hatred toward her. I did not curse her in any shape or form. The quote is poignant, but not meant to offend, but to induce clarity of thought - and this goes for all who support the killing of innocent Iraqis.

“Angered Iraqis do not join the insurgency/terrorism” Joanne 10.00am. re-quoted by Anonymous but failed to include the entire sentence, and thus meaning. So here are my actual words.

"Angered Iraqis do not join the insurgency/terrorism - only those who chose to murder their own people, join this insurgency/terrorism." quote by me, Joanne

"And your evidence for this comment is? You have interviewed all the angry Iraqis and they told you this or is it just another example of the bullshit you make up? Face it Joanne you’re just a raving Christian nutjob and you haven’t got a clue what Iraqis think or do. Here’s a clue: it isn’t what you tell them they’re thinking or what you want them to be thinking it’s what they think for themselves." by Anonymous

Now these are the words of someone who is emotional and hysterical - takes my words, omits the actual meaning of the comment and then drills me on the part of the sentence they chose. I never said the Iraqis were not angry; I would imagine anger, lack of power, hatred, money, and envy are probably driving forces of this insurgency/terrorism, but what exactly does the insurgents/terrorists do - they murder innocents. Would anger cause you to kill innocents?

Oh, and I certainly like the part where I am said to be a "raving Christian nutjob." Yes, I am feeling the love! Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 07:30:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Alvaro

I am not cursing everyone who doesn't agree with me - nor anyone, but don't expect me to agree with those who support the killing of innocents, who only speak out against the Americans but not the insurgents/terrorists!

Like your story though, sounds like a bad attempt to incite hatred and violence towards the coalition forces. You people just never give up - was it so good as a Baathist, killing for Saddam - was the payoff so great? I'd sooner give up my life, than murder an innocent - how about you Alvaro? Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 07:51:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Papa Ray - I'll get to reading that article you linked to, but I would like to mention that you have no clue as to the depth of one's knowledge, learning, understanding, or righteousness - so please do not patronize people. What is the depth of God's understanding - do you know? Is there a standard by which to measure? With all due respect. Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 08:42:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Joanne:

Your ignorance, and the ignorance of people like you, allowed your government to kill at least 500.000 Iraquis by UN sanction an DU polution plus 100.000 Iraquis by aereal bombardment.

All these innocent Iraqui people DIE and you say "Oh! I'd sooner give up my life, than murder an innocent".

You are so hypocritical...

And you know what happens to hypocritical people?

What happens when they DIE??

Hypocrisy is a CAPITAL SIN!!!

They go straight to HELL!!!!

Then, there will be your DESTINY:

T H E . H E L L ! ! ! ! !.

Do not give up your life, Joanne! In fact, I wish you have a very long life, Joanne. A very long life to enjoy Earth before H.E.L.L..

By the way, I am an atheist...

Alvaro Frota
------------
PS: But, as you is a Christian, you will go to HELL anyway...

 
#12/20/2004 10:43:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Joanne:

The above post is only a joke. As a atheist, I do not believe in such thinks like hell or heaven. But I do believe in human racionality and I wish you have a long life, at least long enough to you understand how much wrong you are about the occupation of Iraq.

If you read my erliers posts, you will notice that the Iraqui Resistance Reports is only about military operations against the US troops. The Iraqui Resistance are not terrorists and do not made such things as hostages and beheading. The hostages-taking are made by gangs of criminals. The beheading are made by CIA operatives, in order to persuade people like you that this war is fair. Do not you realized the "beheading show" started just after the scandal of Abu Gurayb? Cui bono?

Iraqui Resistance kills the Iraqui collaborators, of course, as France Resistance killed the French that was collaborating whith the nazis and as all Resistances against an occupier did in History. You American also killed the collaborators with the Britons in your Revolution.

Iraqui Resistance also utilize car bombs as military weapons and try to minimize the subsequent "colateral damage" what is far less than the "colateral damage" made by the continuously US aerial bombardment over civilian neighborhoods.

You American people are very like the Germans under the Nazism. You are sleeping in fear. Please, wake up. The earlier you wake up, the earlier this illegal and imoral war will end.

Read my earlier posts and think!

Best regards

Alvaro

 
#12/20/2004 07:05:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Alvaro Frito-Lay,

I've excerpted from your latest loony-tune post over at Iraqi Bloggers Central. The derisive laughter in your direction has already started.

Enjoy.

I have only just begun, Frito. For you, sad to say, it's going to get much, much worse.

*

 
#12/20/2004 09:43:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Papa Ray

From Joanne's post to me (Papa Ray)

"Papa Ray - I'll get to reading that article you linked to, but I would like to mention that you have no clue as to the depth of one's knowledge, learning, understanding, or righteousness - so please do not patronize people. What is the depth of God's understanding - do you know? Is there a standard by which to measure? With all due respect. Joanne"

Joanne,

I am sorry if my post came across to you as patronizing, that is not what I intended. I am not sure I even know how to do that. Sometimes when I write, it does not come across as I think it does. I'm not takeing sides as such here but do have beliefs and concerns.

My post was not aimed at any one person, anywhere. It was meant for everyone, everywhere. Grand thinking on my part, I guess. But I have been around a long, long time and have seen, and done much. I have been very foolish at different times in my life. I have been very stupid more than I should have been throughout my life.

I have been at the age that I thought I knew everything, and that older folk (or for that matter, people my age, were just stupid or uninformed).

I have been ruled at times in my life by plain ignorance, stupidity, anger, hormones and pride.

Pride...that is a subject worth a very large, thick book. There is some saying, somewhere about pride comes just before the fall, or something like that. I have had pride kick my butt and cause me problems more times in my life than I want to admit. You would think that I would learn. But as always, I had to learn EACH time, the hard way.

My family was very poor up until I was a teen, then I was able to work and go to school for a while, and my Dad was able to get a better job. Through out my life, my Mother kept us going, through very hard times. She raised rabbits, chickens and always had a garden. We most likely would have starved if not for her. She also sold and traded those animals for things we needed. She was a really good business woman even though she only finished the 4th grade.

They tried to raise me right. They instilled in me a respect for everyone, a respect for "God", and explained to me, their understanding of religion and other things. We went to church when we could and we gave to others as we could afford. We accepted gifts very seldom, but when we did it was with proper gratitude. But she did not like to accept anything from anyone, and it was the same with my Dad. So I grew up somewhat the same. I was a country boy, (I guess I would be called a redneck by todays standards).

I didn't finish high school, I got my GED (high school equilivency certificate), when I was in the US Army. I didn't finish because we decided we needed more income than I needed school.

Since then I have collected a college education over several years and a lot more by just reading and doing my own "home study" by home courses and of course the internet. All this while working a 10 to 14 hour day job. sometimes 6 days a week, for almost 35 years. This is not including callouts at any time at night and weekends.

The point of me telling you all this is to give me a little credibility when I give you a list of things I have learned over my long life. You can believe I learned most of them if not all, the hard way.

Here they are, take them or leave them, edit them to suit you:

I've learned that you can get by on charm for about 30 minutes. After that, you'd better know something.

I've learned that you shouldn't compare yourself to the best others can do, but to the best you can do.

I've learned that it's not what happens to people that's important. It's what they do and how they react to it.

I've learned that you can do something in an instant that will give you heartaches for life.

I've learned that no matter how you feel about it, there are always two sides to everything.

I've learned that divorce hurts the children most of all.

I've learned that living together without love is worse than divorce on the children.

I've learned that it's taking me a much longer time to become the person I should be, and I'm running out of time.

I've learned that it's a lot easier to react than it is to think, but not a smart thing to do, unless your talking about driving.

I've learned that you should always leave loved ones with loving words, It may be the last time you see them.

I've learned that you can keep on going and doing long after you think you can't.

I've learned that we are responsible for what we do, no matter what the circumstances.

I've learned that either you control your attitude or it controls you and if you let it control you, you are going to have big problems.

I've learned that life can be as hard on you as you make it, poor decisions, no planning and a bad attitude will make it that way.

I've learned that heroes are people who do what has to be done when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.

I've learned that learning to forgive takes a lot of practice.

I've learned that there are people who love you, but just don't know how to show it.

I've learned that some people will be your friend only as long it is to their benefit.

I've learned that money and material things is a false way of determining self worth.

I've learned that alcohol is a dangerous drug and can make you do and say awful things.

I've learned that sometimes when I'm angry, I have the right to be angry, but that doesn't give me the right to be cruel.

I've learned that true friendship is very hard to come by and the same goes double for true love.

I've learned that just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to doesn't mean they don't love you.

I've learned that no matter how much I want something, it won't matter to others.

I've learned that maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you've had and what you've learned from them and less to do with how many birthdays you've had.

I've learned that you should never tell a child their dreams are unlikely, few things are more cruel, and how awful it would be if they really believed you.

I've learned that no matter how good a friend you think someone is, the only real way to find out is when you need them.

I've learned that it isn't always enough to be forgiven by others. Sometimes you have to learn to forgive yourself.

I've learned that no matter how bad your heart is broken the world doesn't stop for your grief or even care.

I've learned that our background and experiences may influence who we are, but we are responsible for who we become.

I've learned that sometimes when my children fight, I'm forced to choose sides, even when I don't want to.

I've learned that just because two people argue, it doesn't mean they don't love each other.

I've learned that sometimes you have to put the person ahead of their actions.

I've learned that it takes years to build up trust, and only a little while to destroy it.

I've learned that the more we try to teach our children, the less they seem to learn.

I've learned that you shouldn't be so eager to find out the truth. It could hurt.

I've learned that the clothes I like best are the ones with the most holes in them.

I've learned that even with a closet full of clothes, none of them fit anymore.

I've learned that words said in haste and anger hurt everybody and help no one.

I've learned that it's not what you have in your life, but who you have in your life that really counts.

I've learned that two people can look at the exact same situation and see something totally different.

I've learned that people with a little religion are almost more narrow minded than those with a lot.

I've learned that people who don't read and learn will stay ignorant and narrow minded.

I've learned that even if you don't agree with someone, you should listen to their viewpoint.

I've learned that you cannot make someone love you. All you can do is love them.

I've learned that no matter how you try to protect your children, they will get hurt and you will hurt also.

I've learned the true power and meaning of obsession.

I've learned that if you can't spell very good, you should use a dictionary.

I've learned that how big my gut is has no relationship to how much I eat.

I've learned that no matter the consequences, if you try to be honest with yourself, you will feel better for it.

I've learned that many things can overpower your mind, the trick is keeping control of them.

I've learned that your life can be changed forever in a matter of minutes by people who don't even know you.

I've learned that even when you think you have no more to give, if your child needs you, you will find a way and means to help. But sometimes helping too much is really a hindrance.

I've learned that writing poetry, as well as talking, can help a little with a broken heart.

I've learned that anti-depressants are not as much help as they are supposed to be.

I've learned that retirement pay is not enough to retire on, if you want to have any fun.

I've learned that credit cards can be nice to have but can lead to financial problems.

I've learned not to let others know your personal business.

I've learned that if you want something bad enough, you will find a way to get it.

I've learned that fantasy's are not as good as the real thing.

I've learned that the real thing sometimes is not as good as the fantasy.

I've learned that prior planning prevents piss poor performance.

I've learned that even with prior planning, unexpected things will always happen.

I've learned that if your going to do something, give it all your effort, do the very best that you can.

I've learned that even if something awful happens to you, you can always learn something from it.

I've learned the only thing to say to the police is, yes sir, no sir and thank you sir.

I've learned that if you care for your car, it won't leave you stranded.

I've learned that the harder you look for happiness, the more wrong places you will look.

I've learned that sometimes happiness is right in front of you but you can't see it.

I've learned that prostitution may not be legal but it provides a much needed service in society.

I've learned that credentials on the wall doesn't mean they know what the hell they're talking about.

I've learned that the people you care most about in life are always taken away from you too soon.

I've learned that I should have taken better care of myself, but I wasn't smart enough at the time.

I've learned that someone can love you, but not be in love with you.

I've learned that it's hard to know how to decide between not hurting people and standing up for
what you believe is right.

I've learned that, even if your right, its very hard to change someone else's mind.

I've learned that the more you love someone, the more you can hurt them.

I've learned that the more you love someone, the more they can hurt you.

I've learned that the more I learn, the more I seem not to know.

I am still learning, I have taken a crash course in Middle East studies and its history. I have just barely scratched the surface so far. But, what I have learned scares the crap out of me. Not for myself, but for my Sweet Granddaughter and my three Grandsons.

May God have mercy on all of us

This is my post

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

 
#12/20/2004 10:29:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Alvaro, just a joke, now who is being hypocritical? No matter, yours words do not phase me in the least. I would rather listen to your rantings on the way you view the goings on in Iraq and the insurgency/terrorism's part in it, rather than listening to people's rantings about how the Americans are to blame for every death and everything else going wrong in Iraq and never mentioning the insurgents/terrorists role in the murder and mayhem, but all the while believing they are decent people - now that is hypocritical.

As for hell, I do not believe people die and go directly to hell; I believe when people die, they fall asleep for a time and will rise and be judged by Jesus, so in reality, at least mine as a Christian, we will all be judged by the one and the same, and our fate is in his hands! May you live long enough for God to open your eyes! Joanne

 
#12/20/2004 11:16:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Papa Ray - Life can be a long journey of trials and tribulations, and when one learns from each and takes that knowledge with them through life, they'll be a better man/woman. I have always thought of myself as a diamond in the raw, with many facets, and each life's lesson results in the buffing of yet another facet. God punishes and disciplines those he loves, and when he gives me an extended break from hardship, I actually start wondering if it is a good thing or perhaps a bad thing.

I believe in God's prophecies, and I realize peace will come upon earth and then the end will come. "For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, ..... I Thessalonians 5:3 I know Christians will be persecuted and beheaded for their beliefs - as so many Christians are being persecuted today. I believe in one's right to choose a religion or not, and it will appear bizarre to another religion or an atheist, but God's prophecies give a greater understanding of those things to come to pass and as those prophecies are revealed, it reaffirms what you've believed all along through God's word and faith.

Why am I saying all this to you? I just didn't want you to think people are unaware of what is to come to pass and why, but I always remember and keep in the forefront of my mind, that we are all God's creations and Jesus died for all our sins. Is God separating the wheat from the tares in Iraq - I do not know God's purpose there - just speculation and theories. Do not fear for your grandbabies; the one thing I've learned above all is that when I give my worries up to Jesus, he is a far better orchestrator of my life, than I could ever be.

Wisdom does not come from education, but from learning from your life's trials and tribulations; no book will ever teach you as life's experiences will. Joanne

 
#12/22/2004 12:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Quiet, or I'll call democracy

 
#12/23/2004 08:58:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Alvaro Frota

Hy Jeffrey! You asked:

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE IRAQI MEN?

Don't you have any idea where they are? It seems they are in Mosul, in Fallujah, in ar-Ramadi, in Bahgdad, in Samarra, in Hit, in al-Basra. Everywhere!

It seems you are not the only that have absolutely no idea where they are. I think many others of your countrymen are asking just right now:

WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE IRAQI MEN?

They are in ALL Iraq, man! Don't you saw yesterday the cusp of the iceberg?

And last, but not the least, are you prepared to be drafted into the very Titanic?

 
#12/23/2004 06:53:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Frito,

Glad to know that you support those who have killed and maimed IRAQI MEN, WOMEN, and CHILDREN and American soldiers. You must feel pretty good about yourself.

*

 
#12/23/2004 09:03:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger fasteddie

I can't believe what a jerk that Jeffrey guy was, he can't take you at your word? I very much appreciate the honest perspective of your blogs from where you live. I believe it will be best the sooner U.S. troops come home. I am disapointed to put it very mildly at my government's foreign policy, of preemptive war... foolish and wrong.

Can there be a government that serves the best interests of the Iraqi people salvaged out of this deadly situation? What about giving the Shias, and Sunnis, differant regions? For instance Teaxas is Republican, and California is Democrats. Can the Sunnis quit the insurgency? If they did, the occupation would not be an occupation forever.
Troops would come home. Let Iraq's citizens rule, choose what is best for Iraq, hell let them try Saddam. Bring American troops home.

 
#12/30/2004 08:00:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Hello Khalid,
You have the best[funniest] Iraqi blog except no comments?! You can do both.

 
#3/03/2005 03:26:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

yeah khalid and his fat ass mother are both jokes. very humerous, indeed.

 
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