Friday, October 07, 2005

Sometimes...

Sometimes... I just keep posting in the hope that someone else will get sick of my tireless prattle and decide to oust my monopoly here and outpost me or stand up to my fearless pacification.

Because I know nothing much, except perhaps for just one thing: I do not want to see another dictatorship, or make-believe democracy, installed in Iraq. And this, as far as I can tell, can only happen when as many people as possible tell their tales, because only then can some sort of composite "truth" be revealed. During war there is just so much propaganda that the only way to out-propagate it is by presenting everything (theoretically). Because propaganda seems to infiltrate every action, even those most innocent ones. Perhaps especially those most innocent ones. Sadly. Oh what a fretfull cynic am I.

I wish I could do more, but then does an ant wish it could lift the world? Or is an ant content in lifting it's own bodyweight. Perhaps an ant is not content at all and just lifts without reason.

27 Comments

#10/07/2005 03:48:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

how can it be a make-believe democracy when so many iraqis voted for the current government? a higher percentage of iraqis voted in the last election than aussis, is your government make-believe too? also, you never just present everything (theoretically) because that would cause an open-debate, which is against your views. you present a one-sided view of things and get upset when nobody cares about your posts. when someone, like myself, challenges your views as wrong, you call me a racist, nazis, pro-american, etc etc, and delete my post, because anyone that disagrees with you must be insane.

 
#10/07/2005 06:18:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger cile

... 'when as many people as possible tell their tales, because only then can some sort of composite "truth" be revealed. During war ... /

emigre, this is so true. I believe that the more stories are being told, and the more ways for telling these stories are being used, the better it is! and yes, i agree with you that probably the most innocent are most affected by the war-propaganda's.

 
#10/08/2005 01:56:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

What sort of government do you want? If you want a democracy, what would make it real, as opposed to "make-believe"?

 
#10/08/2005 11:25:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger cile

hm. that last question: which country do you mean? or is it intended as an open question that goes for more countries of this world? ;)

 
#10/10/2005 02:01:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Long live the whatever

Emigre

Almost everytime you publish richsanter turns up. Anyone worth their weight in salt can see he is either as he says insane or an agent of provocation or both, keen only to sow mistrust and destabilize dialogue with his halftruths. You will only satisfy him when you tell him "Amereich is Great" and even then he will be ordering you say it and mean it as well. Why do you tolerate him so? You have no religion as far as I can see and yet you leave his saber rattling unchallenged this week almost as though you expected a god to step in and judge him.

 
#10/10/2005 04:38:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

long live whatever, why do i bother you so? why cant i post my opinions and comments without being harassed and intimidated? why is it such a problem to allow more than one view? the site would be pretty stupid and pointless if only one opinion was allowed and this was a bizarre and creepy meeting place for people to reinforce their non-mainstream views.

 
#10/10/2005 08:08:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Richsanter,

If you absolutely REFUSE to go along with Emigre's position, you MUST be "educated."

Repeat after me.

Bushitler is the source of all the world's problems.

Bushitler caused the earthquake in Pakistan.

Bushitler is both GOD and SATAN.

Bushitler is actually controlled by his EVIL TWIN Chimpy McHalliburton Bush.

See?

It's not so hard, is it?

*

 
#10/11/2005 08:31:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Sharon Jumper

Two invitations to everyone here at Iraq Blogspot:
(1) There is a FREE blogger conference online that starts on October 12-24 called, "Building A Safer World: The United Nations in the 21st Century." You can view information on it here. We really want Iraqi participation in this international colloquia of scholars, writers, thinkers, and people trying to improve the world. Please join us!
(2) One of the largest blog sites in Anerica, Daily Kos, receives 13 Million+ hits per month. The American people are not hearing about much going on in Iraq these days, and few have ever had the opportunity to hear anything from the Iraqi people themselves. There is a great deal of interest in hearing from each of you and interacting with you.

 
#10/11/2005 09:15:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous MadCasey

Its so painfully true that we in America hear little to nothing regarding what is happening inside Iraq.

We hear "American and Iraqi forces raided this," and "American forces captured that," but we hear nothing about how stable your power, water, or law enforcement systems are, nor how safe your streets are for the common man.

Some of us read the Iraqi bloggers, and are intrigued by and respect most of what we hear, but not nearly enough of us do. We would love for all of you to start posting on some of our blogs in America, to tell "the world" --or at least the US--what is really going on, from your point of view.

Richsanter has a mild point in saying that Democracy and free expression are all about debate and diverse opinions rather than consensus, and we invite you to partake in the open-source world of ideas that awaits you!

 
#10/11/2005 03:53:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Emigre, some USEFUL spam for you:

This is an EXCELLENT article and analysis of the effect of the so-called “El Salvador Option” being implemented by the US on Iraq. It covers the formation of the death squads, as well as disinformation used to redirect interpretation and blame for various mass killings. This is reminiscent of the Phoenix Programme in Vietnam.

Check this out:

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/FUL506A.html

Oh, and Jeffrey loving richsanter somehow does NOT surprise me.

 
#10/11/2005 04:10:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Hello,

TeresaInPennsylvania here.

I would like to reinforce the invitation to post at www.dailykos.com/section/Diary and also at a site called www.peopleforchange.net where there is a lot of discussion about the middle east and Irag in particular. We discuss these issues amoung ourselves and there are a few american muslim members there, but we would like very much to hear from people who can speak to us about what is really happening in Iraq and the middle east.
In the meantime I hope to participate here from time to time.

 
#10/11/2005 04:32:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger shystee

It looks like you have yourselves a slight "troll infestation" in comments.

Don't want to be patronizing, but in case you're not familiar with the term:

A Troll:
- posts just to be disruptive
- does not present arguments based on facts or evidence
- uses hateful, inflammatory or obscene rhetoric
- whines and complains when these tactics are turned on them

There are a number of ways of dealing with Trolls:
1. "Don't Feed the Trolls": ignore them and hope they go away since they are often encouraged by responses to them.

2. "Troll Spanking": engaging the troll in debate and destroying their position through evidence, logic and reasoned argument.

3. Deleting the Troll's posts and/or banning them.

I prefer #2 because I enjoy argument, but it can be time-consuming and irritating. #3 is most often exhibited by US Right-Wing blogs, I like to think because their postitions on issues can't stand up to argument. Although I think even lefty bloggers such as Kos have engaged in #3 with the more annoying trolls.

Anyway, I hope this was helpful rather than patronizing. I will definitely bookmark this blog and return often. Many US bloggers, both on the Right and the Left, claim to know the "Will of the Iraqi People" better than the Iraqi people themselves, so hearing directly from Iraqis is very important.

True Freedom and Democracy can only come about with universal access to truthful information and an open exchange of ideas. While we don't face arrest (yet) US Lefty bloggers are engaged in a struggle against the disinformation of our Corporate Media which has behaved as the Propaganda arm of the Bush Administration and the Republican Party for the last five years. I join Sharon Jumper and others in urging you to join our discussion. Your input is invaluable.

Peace!

 
#10/11/2005 04:49:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Long live the whatever

richsanter might have had a mild point if he hadn't spent so much time in the past intimidating anyone who doesn't agree with him.

Meanwhile Jeffrey continues to foist presumption on the unimpressed. How parochial. Emigre, you have created a backwater for the disenfranchised. Where are you? And why don't you stand up to these thugs. You must know I prefer more wholesome satire to Jeffrey and rich's panfried greasy offerings. Must I wait till after dusk for your reply?

Surely you don't intend leaving burlesque subversion all to Bruno and dkos visitors, heavens someone might start wondering if you even really care at all.

 
#10/11/2005 05:35:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

my comments intimidate people and im a thug now? wow,long live whatever, you couldnt have been more dramatic there, could you? i didnt realize simply giving my opinion was intimidating to everyone. strange, all the pro-saddam people on this site still seem to be posting frequently. unlike you, i wont use name-calling and demagoguery to make my point. im a better person than you and each lame comment you make proves it even more. even though you may call me a racist, nazi, pro-american, zionist, or thug....i know who i am, so i could care less what your personal opinions of me are.

 
#10/11/2005 05:42:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Roark

I would be worried about debating with anyone from DailyKos. Those people are the extreme left wing of US political spectrum and they are the same ones who actually cheer when things get worse in Iraq - like huge suicide bombings, killings of elected officials, etc.
Why do they cheer? Because they hope to bring down President Bush by whatever means necessary and if Iraq is destabilized even worse it fits neatly with their goals.
Be wary of anyone from there and the "dialogue" they want to have with you.

 
#10/11/2005 06:40:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous hello kitties

Hardly surprising to see some commenters already trying to discourage people from visiting Daily Kos which is arguably one of the US's biggest blogs ever, basically bigger then Ben Hurr with heaps of diarists posting about loads of stuff that their current administration finds discomforting. Still, none of them appear to have been arrested yet so visiting and chatting with them ought to be fairly safe. Incidentally, a number of Kos posters were all sitting on their hands waiting to go off at the slightest signal from Khalid's mom when he was arrested but held themselves considerately in check while his family navigated their way through bureaucracy. They are mostly Americans and at times a bit rowdy, but then most bloggers have their rowdy ra-ra moments.

 
#10/11/2005 06:42:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Roak Wrote: "I would be worried about debating with anyone from DailyKos. Those people are the extreme left wing of US political spectrum and they are the same ones who actually cheer when things get worse in Iraq - like huge suicide bombings, killings of elected officials, etc."

One thing about a good lie is to tell a little bit of truth. Fact is, I've seen many soldier's families post at DailyKos and soldiers from Iraq themselves. There is a large cross section of people including moderates and conservatives. Dissent is encouraged and ALL Americans need to see the real view of Iraqis straight from Iraqis.

You can also post over at :
http://www.sftt.us/phpbb2/index.php
This is combination of mostly veterans and active duty soldiers that are a cross section of the political spectrum from far left to avid Bush supporters ( few and far between).

Go ahead and register and tell them that DBurn sent you. All is anonymous. Start your own topics. Let the vets talk to you and ask questions. We really need some unfiltered view points from all of you. Those who support this war and those who don't and why.

This also has high traffic and there are some real healthy debate. Dissent is encouraged unlike the neo-con sites that cheer-lead this war.

 
#10/11/2005 07:14:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Roark,

Thanks for reminding me why I am a democrat. I prefer honesty to O'Reilly spin.

"Extreme leftists" don't bother posting at dkos. It's not left enough for them.

 
#10/11/2005 07:54:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Roark

You jokers can't be serious, but actually nice trolling. DKos is full of far leftists who continuously bash moderate democrats for compromising and selling out to Republicans... We all read that site, it's full of garbage.

 
#10/11/2005 08:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

i'd have to agree with roark on this one. the site sucks worse than this one. im a democrat and made a mistake when i voted for gore in 2000. luckily i was smart enough and knew enough of the issues to make a better choice in 2004 and pick bush. i always ask left-wing liberals what would happen to iraq if the US left tomorrow and they always say the same thing..."i dunno and i dont care." one day liberals will stop being selfish and try to show some humanity to people outside of the known white world. just because iraqis are poor brown people doesnt mean they should be subjected to car bombings daily and a theocracy like afghanistan. but believing this makes me a racist in their eyes.

 
#10/11/2005 10:50:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger shystee

Roark and Rich,

Glad you're reading dKos too, hope you learn something.

The dKos community is mostly Center-left or Moderate (whatever that means). Their stance on Iraq seems to be that once the incompetent, corrupt, greedy imperialists (Republicans) currently in charge of the US government are replaced by grownups (Democrats) who believe in letting experts set the policy instead of cronies and ideologues, things in Iraq will undoubtedly get better. But they refuse to say what, exactly, their plan is.

Then there are "radical" lefties like myself (and Cindy Sheehan and 63% of Americans) who believe the US needs to get out of Iraq as soon as possible. There can be no peace or democracy in Iraq if we control the country as occupiers enforcing our vision at gunpoint, and taking sides in the Civil War. Our presence there just makes things worse, not better. After we leave hopefully the Iraqis will resolve their differences themselves quicker (because we won't be inferfering) without too much additional bloodshed, like what happened in Vietnam. The only other alternative would be for the US to renounce all claims to Iraq and bring in the UN to keep the peace. For more "craziness", check my blog.

Then again there are the Right Wingers who seem blind to the fact that Civil War has been going on in Iraq ever since the US, in one of the dumbest moves in history, disbanded the Iraqi Army and police force. Their blind faith in Bush makes them see every suicide bombing, slaughter of civilians and US soldiers as positives: proof that the "terrorists" are in their "last throes". As the death toll mounts as a resut of Bush's Iraq policies, their solution is to "stay the course": do more of the same and expect different results.

Rich, you are projecting your racism onto others: you seem to believe the Brown People of Iraq need the Great White Father to rule them with deadly force and show them the "right" way to run their country.

I know these arguments already but I'm much more interested in what Iraqis (and Iraqi expats) think.

 
#10/12/2005 01:03:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

shystee, thank you for calling me a racist. i was wondering why nobody mentioned it before.

first, many people, including myself, believes that the iraqi government isnt strong enough to handle the current situation without US help. terrorists need a safe country to conduct their future operations against the US and israel. if the US were to leave iraq tomorrow zarqawi and bin laden wouldnt apply to medical school. they are terrorists and they will attack another country, or the US again. with the terrorists in iraq it would be like afghanistan was in less than 2 years.

also, you mention how fantastic vietnam was after the US left. what you dont mention is how million of south vietnamese died in "re-education camps" after the communist north vietnamese invaded saigon. liberals never mention this. they must think that the vietnamese are better off today living in a backwards 3rd world country than they would have been under a capitalist society like south korea.

also, the poll that you site says that 63% of americans would like to see a complete or partial withdrawl. i dont like the poll because it doesnt say how many want a complete withdrawl and how many would like to see a partial withdrawl. also, the poll doesnt say WHEN this withdrawl took place. obviously 95% of americans would want to see a withdrawl from iraq within the next 50 years. CNN doesnt mention anything about this, so its a piece of garbage.

if you are a real pacifist then it wouldnt make sense to support the US leaving because this would obviously cause a violent civil war between the supporters of the government, supporters of a taliban-style government, baathists, and a bunch of other groups. more people would die in this civil war than in 20 years of the current situation, just as it happened in afghanistan when the talibal took over. your views offer no plan for helping iraq and ignoring their problems seems heartless and cruel, but not racist. i think you're just ignorant of history.

 
#10/12/2005 04:35:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger shystee

Rich,

thank you for calling me a racist. i was wondering why nobody mentioned it before.

You mentioned it 3 times in this very comment thread referring to yourself and playing the victim before I ever did, so I figured you were asking for it. See the fourth tip for spotting a Troll above.

terrorists need a safe country to conduct their future operations against the US and israel. if the US were to leave iraq tomorrow zarqawi and bin laden wouldnt apply to medical school.

Osama Bin Laden has been safe and sound in Pakistan ever since 9/11. Why would he move? Al-Qaeda is a decentralized, international terrorism franchise. They have no need for huge, US-type military bases. They're currently operating in England, Spain, Indonesia, Chechnya and who knows where else. They're not pressed for new countries to be in right now.

And besides, the President said he doesn't think about OBL much now. So either he's not a threat anymore or capturing him was never really a priority for Bush and the Neocons. The latter makes a lot more sense.

I've read stuff on the internets that leads me to think Zarqawi is a creation of US propaganda: he was supposed to be missing a leg but he's standing tall in the Nick Berg video, his accent isn't Jordanian, the "authorities" are always getting really close to catching him but he "slips away" just in the nick of time...

The US propagandists need the Zarqawi boogey man to scare Americans and distract them from the fact that the majority of insurgents and suicide bombers are pissed off Iraqi Sunnis who want us out of there.

You fail to realize the nightmare Iraqi civil war scenario you describe has already been taking place for years. The US Military doesn't seem to be handling a damn thing right now.

All I see on the teevee is chaos and carnage. Non-Iraqi terrorists from other countries are getting real life experience every day on how to efficiently murder American soldiers.

The Iraqi army is a joke. The Kurds have a full-fledged, trained and equipped army of their own as do the Shiite factions in the south. The Sunnis, who used to own the country, know they're going to get screwed by the other groups (something that is just going to be made official by the new constitution) and that is why they're blowing up Iraqi civilians from those other groups. The Sunnis know the US is against them and propping up the Shiites and the Kurds so that is why they blow up US soldiers.

Do you really think all the violence in Iraq is caused by "terraists" who just want to spread "terra" because they "hate freedom"? Does that seem like a believable motivation for a man to kill others while killing himself in the process?

also, you mention how fantastic vietnam was after the US left.

I can't find any casualty figures for what happened after the US left Vietnam. If you have any links please post them.

The casualty estimates for Vietnamese (soldiers and civilians) during our 15 year involvement are between 1.5 and 4 million. Are Iraqis willing to pay that price?

Here are the US casualty numbers in Vietnam:
128,000 Wounded
58,238 Killed
~ 5,000 Fraggings
14,000 Missing in Action
> 50,000 Suicides since 1975

Are Americans willing to pay that price, only to leave anyway after another 10 years? And for what? So the US can impose it's control and chosen system of government on a far away nation? So Iraqis can live in a Capitalist economy (which by the way does not = democracy)?

Bad things happened after the US left Vietnam, but the civil war ended, quickly. By staying for 15 years the US just prolonged the agony by delaying the inevitable conclusion. Vietnam has been a peaceful country ever since. The Vietnamese government might not be what we like best, but it was self-determined by the Vietnamese themselves. That is the first step to Democracy (the rule of the people). There can be no true Democracy if it is imposed by a foreign country.

I don't know what will happen if the US withdraws completely. I don't think anybody does. The situation could get a lot worse for a long time. But if your interest truly lies with the safety and freedom of Iraqis, it seems obvious from the past 2 years that the US military cannot impose a peaceful solution by force. Definitely not with the current incompetent, corrupt and imperialist administration in charge.

The invasion of Iraq was illegal, immoral and counter-productive to the interests of Iraqi and US citizens. It was and continues to be sold to Americans on lies, innuendo and blind faith.

I am not a pacifist. I believe strongly in destroying Al-Qaeda (the people who attacked us, remember?) wherever they're hiding. I believe in doing whatever it takes to keep Americans safe from terrorists. The occupation of Iraq has proven it has nothing to do with these two goals and is actually working against them.

By the way, you seem to think US sacrifice in order to bring "freedom" and "democracy" to Iraqis is a worthwile cause. Are you currently serving in the US military? If not, Operation Yellow Elephant will be more than happy to point you to the nearest recruitment station.

Peace!

 
#10/12/2005 06:00:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

shystee, why do you keep saying "us and we" when referring to the US? its obvious from reading your comment that you arent an american and that you aren't even a citizen from an english speaking nation. im not sure who you are trying to fool. also, didnt the iraqis vote in large numbers for a government that everyone knew would ask the US to stay? i mean, the iraqis HAD to know jafarri would ask the US to stay in iraq, yet they voted for him and his party anyway. i doubt the average iraqi was so dumb that they thought the US would quickly leave. so if they voted for a party friendly to the US, isnt that a vote for keeping the US in the iraq? there were plenty of other parties iraqis could have voted for that would have quickly requested the US leave. also, you keep referring to the US, when this is a UN operation. in your previous comment you said that perhaps UN peacekeepers could be in iraq, but that is impossible. the UN already supports the MNF and if they cant get it done do you really think belgium, germany, france, and brazil are going to put their troops in iraq on another UN mission? practically all UN missions end in disaster anyways, such as lebanon, somalia, and rwanda.

those are nice stats for vietnam, sadly they are far from accurate. if you cant find any info about the deaths that took place in communist re-education camps, then you arent looking hard enough...or at all. http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-69-524-2706/life_society/boat_people/clip2
the CBC did an ok job introducing people to the slave labor and death by starvation and beatings that the south vietnamese people faced under the communists when the US left, but it doesnt go far enough to show the autrocities. your stats suck, see 2nd tip for spotting trolls above. http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html

that is some more stats to show how bizarre your info on the suicides, etc about vietnam are way, way off....but who cares? trolls like yourself do not support their extremist opinions with real stats. their stats are either made up lies or are taken from a michael moore/al jazeera website. trolls often try to impersonate others, like you trying to portray yourself as an american when even a child can see that you're not exactly a master of the english language. pathetic, thats all i have to say.

 
#10/12/2005 06:24:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger shystee

How dare you question my nationality? I am a full US citizen, my family has been in the United States for at least 150 years. My writing may not be perfect, but your command of the English language is marginal at best (what are "autrocities"? Horrible Car Accidents?). Should I assume you're a fake American?

I've seen that vhfcn.org page before, linked by right-wing trolls like youself. That page is totally biased. The sources linked are Nixon, General Westmoreland and General McCaffrey. Nice try.

You still haven't given me a casualty number for post-vietnam casualties. And the number I use for suicides may be questionable, but do you question the 128,000 Wounded and 58,238 Killed?

You also haven't answered my question about military service. Are you currently serving and if not, why aren't you enlisting?

I've had my fun with you and I'm moving on. Consider yourself spanked. Peace out.

 
#10/12/2005 03:42:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

uh yeah, i guess i got "spanked" by someone that can barely put two sentences together. go back to your ghetto. your interesting brand of debate isnt understood here. perhaps your local puerto rican street gang will enjoy a conversation with you more since you speak the language of the hood. peace out, homie.

 
#10/12/2005 06:01:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger richsanter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_list#United_States_Civil_War_.28Confederate_States_of_America.29

refers to hundreds of thousands of south vietnamese being murdered in re-education camps, just scroll down to north vietnam and it discusses it briefly. its pretty easy to find a lot about it, but you obviously havent looked much. took busy flossing your gold teeth and getting tattoos i guess. and no, im not in the military.

yo dog, i've had my laughs at reading your comments. keep it real fool. let all your boyz back in da hood know i said wassup. stupid ghetto faggot.

 

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