Tuesday, August 10, 2004

Story of the day

Hey all:))first of all, my apologies to the "nice jeff" :)) i am sorry for the confusion :)this period, i received more mails than i usually get, the majority of my readers were americans (probably 95%, no surveys, but basing on the mails i got)and the majority of my readers, and the very majority of the emails i get, are very nice, very supportive, and i thank everyone of them, and i apologize cause i dont have the time to reply to each one of them, specially for the over-10kb emails, but i certainly read every word and enjoy it, so thank you, and i promise to answer as soon as i can.back to our subject, the very funny thing is that for some people, the reference is Saddam, 35 years of minds-blocking made them think that the reference is Saddam, and thats why i am reading some comments (and with all shame i say i received one of these emails too, from an iraqi) saying: why do yo critisize Allawi, isnt he better than Saddam? or somethign like: whats your problem?? do you want Saddam back?? what would Saddam do to a reporter if he was mad at him??and that is so sad, that is a crack in the manners walls, a crack in the humanity wall, to believe that the reference is Saddam, and compare others to him, to justify their corruption, dictatorship, and arrogance.isnt that just sad? i really want to cry.i wish i was there in that conference, i would stand up on my feet, and ask for permession to talk, and i would say to Allawi in front of the cameras: Mr. president, i demand that you talk to the people in this room in a civilized way, you are an employee, the times of dictatorship are gone, you take your salary from our money, you are responsible in front of us, and we have every right to have all the answers for our questions.am i right or not? wouldnt that be just beautiful? wouldn't it just open a new page of standards that say that the president isnt a God that you should fear, he is an employee that should fear you?i will repeat it again, the president, any president, is an employee, and people are his boss, that is khalidism.as we live in iraq, we see a variety of openions, and its everyone's right, to think what he likes, as long as that doesnt lead to hurting others, that is what democracy is about...right?i want to ask a question!what if, the baathists, re-organized their lines, and came to us with speeches like: finally we got rid of the dictator, Saddam ruined the principles of our party, Sadam killed the good baathists, we will restore the realy baath party, the party that calls for lab lab lab, i think you understood what i mean, and these baathists will run to ellections as a new-old party, now you would say: sure they will fail in the ellections, but i will say: do you know how many millions were hurt by the fall of Saddam, you know, baathists, mokhabarat, whoever, who benifited from the existance of Saddam, those millions, who were marginized after the war, and kept with no jobs (which is a terrible american mistake) they were marginized, the thing that led to the fact that while they are marginized, left out of the community, they were encouraged that way to create their own community, a baathist community, call it whatever you want, and that community is thirsty for power, and want to restore their old lives, dont you think that they will support this new baathy party, and join it repeating the "Saddam changed what baath is about" speech? while i know, you know that they are lying, and that it is only a mean to get to power.what will you do then? ban the baath party? but then we will be no better than Saddam right? ban the parties that we dont like, let them work? you tell me!my point behind all that, is that democracy is a two sided sword, one side provides freedom, good healthy communities, and the other side provides some disturbing people in my comments section:)))) me*

39 Comments

#8/10/2004 03:00:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Mohammed

I just wish that Americans could read Arabic... I would have recommended three Iraqi sites with daily updates... Only three... and they would have learned one thing or two about Iraq...
uhhh, How can I say it?
There's a different world out there... really! It doesn't matter if we like the way the majority of Iraqis think or percieve things, they will continue to think in that way... So I recommend that you start to doubt it when people start tellingt you exactly what you want to hear... I face the same thing here too, some Iraqis telling rest of Arabs just what they want to hear... But neither is the case....

 
#8/10/2004 03:12:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Khalid said:

do you know how many millions were hurt by the fall of Saddam, you know, baathists, mokhabarat, whoever, who benefit from the existence of Saddam, those millions, who were marginized after the war

Yes we do Khalid, we do know that the Fascist are out of job, the torturers are unemployed, and all the people who had the benefit of Saddam's regime's are gone forever, we know all of this Khalid and we are happy about it.

Did you ever been in a jail khalid? did you ever saw people been hanged in the streets of Baghdad?? I bet not.
What was your benefit in the time of saddam and now is gone ?? because your post sounds like a tribute.

Cheers from LadyBird

 
#8/10/2004 03:20:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Mohammed
I would like to know these three Arabic sites, name them

LadyBird

 
#8/10/2004 05:44:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#8/10/2004 05:49:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

"is that democracy is a two sided sword, one side provides freedom, good healthy communities, and the other side provides some disturbing people in my comments section:)))) "

I am glad that you are asking questions about this new democracy thing. It is strange and confusing at first, but I an sure that you guys will get it soon enough.
You ask good questions what party should you ban?
The answer is quite easy, you ban no one. What you might say, ban no one? how about the Baath?
I say so what, if they want to work within the rules. Rules that are the same for everyone then that is democracy.
Believe it or not, here in the US we have Natzis, Communist, KKK this group want to return to the days of slavery??
And I would bet you a dollar that somewhere in the US there are Baathist. You might say that we are crazy how can we allow such people to run around freely and spread there poison, like you say that the Baath will come with nice sounding speeches, But how many people will really trust them enough to vote for them? Well probably not many, just a few wakos. The only people that we do not allow are people that use violence to get thier way in politics, we call them terrorist and thugs and thieves. Sound familiar?
And by the way don't worry if the water is abit cold at first, trust the water is just fine jump right in and enjoy.


Madtom

 
#8/10/2004 05:51:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#8/10/2004 06:00:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Emigre,

What are you doing? You've deleted my last two posts. My posts are NOT inflammatory. They are NOT trollish.

Ladybird, this website no longer allows debate. You might want to talk to Emigre.

*

 
#8/10/2004 06:02:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Jeffrey

I know you will ask why your comments have been deleted, and you deserve an answer.

1. I will not have people name-calling on this site.
2. Plagiarism.

 
#8/10/2004 06:06:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Yes this site does allow debate, and i am enjoying the debate between Ladybird and Khalid.

If you can debate instead of stirring that is fine.

 
#8/10/2004 06:07:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#8/10/2004 06:11:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#8/10/2004 06:15:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

MadTom,

Those are excellent comments. I don't think the Baathists should be separated from the others. Like you, I think it's better to let them peddle their ideas of governance. Let the Baathist ideology takes its turn in the marketplace of ideas. Thank God that right now it's a bankrupt idea.

*

 
#8/10/2004 06:18:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
#8/10/2004 06:27:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Ladybird wrote:

>Did you ever been in a jail khalid? did you ever saw people been hanged in the streets of Baghdad?? I bet not.
>
What was your benefit in the time of saddam and now is gone ?? because your post sounds like a tribute.

These are good questions.

(No name calling. No plagiarism.)

How many political parties are there right now in Iraq? I've read about some of them -- even the Return of the Monarchy party. Anyone have info on them? These parties will become increasingly important in the next few months.

*

 
#8/10/2004 06:32:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Emigre,

None of my posts were inflammatory. I never called anyone a name and the charge of plagiarism is groundless (I used direct quotation with attribution every time).

Why are you doing this?

*

 
#8/10/2004 08:48:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Khalid:

Democratic governments are not perfect, or in some respects very tidy. What they absolutely require to be effective is an actively involved citzenry. Thus, the answer to your most important question is that the Baath party must be allowed to stand for election. It is up to its political opponents to remind the voters that a vote for the Baath may be a vote for a return to despotic government. If the Iraqi voters make an unwise choice, it will become your problem so I suggest you get involved.

Another important issue for you to consider is the drafting of a constitution that protects individual and minority rights so that Iraqis outside th majority are not subject to the "tyrrany of the majority." The set of rights and protections to be provided is up to your people. Since constitutions are intended to bind nations for long periods of time, this is an even more important reason to become as actively involved in the political process.

As to Allawi's press conference, you are correct in stating that he (and all other government officials) shoud be viewed as servants of the people of Iraq. Civility should be expected from all government official and the press core. When a press member asks a questions that is unfair or contains an embedded assumption, the official should point out the flawed nature of the question, answers its main thrust, and move on. A press conference is not the appropriate time for a political debate. The role of the press in that forum is to elecit information; the role of the official is to provide it.

Mark in Chi-Town

 
#8/10/2004 11:54:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger praktike

Nice thoughts, Khalid. This is a tough issue.

I like the idea that the prime minister is there at the pleasure of the people. That, to me, is the essence of democracy. You have every right to demand that Allawi be held to high standards.

 
#8/11/2004 12:25:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger timx

You have great insight and understanding. As far as I am able to judge anything from the comfort of England, your observations are right on the nail! Keep speaking your mind - that is how you create a democracy.

 
#8/11/2004 03:20:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Nimrud

Hey Jeffrey, I just wanted to say one thing: Ibn Battutah rocks! (he had you and your friends cornered until you banned him remember??? )

Sorry emigre, I just had to say this.

Salaam

PS: khalid hathe ani 3mar, mithil ma gitlak 7abibi hathe jeffrey wa7id 3n9ori gawad. Ta7iyati ilak, inta 9odug 3ira8i shareef (wil ma yi-3ijba hathe il-7achi iroo7 yu'6rub rasa b-alaf 7ayi6)!

 
#8/11/2004 06:37:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Nimrud,

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but in English "Nimrod" means someone who is an "idiot." Emigre, please, don't whip me! This is not name-calling. It's just a fact. In English, to curse at someone, we say, "You stupid Nimrod!"

Just the facts, ma'am.

Emigre,

I read your post over at Iraqi Bloggers Central. Now I understand. I hadn't realized that the appellation "Baathist" had gone nuclear meltdown already.

Can I say "Baathist apologist"?

I agree with your comments over at my place. Let's see if we can get to the heart of some issues.

First things first, we need to get Ladybird and Khalid to engage in substantive debate.

*

 
#8/11/2004 07:25:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger jeff

Khalid:
No problem.

Jeffrey:
This is the Jeff from Arlington. A debate between the two as you suggest might be interesting. I have found my understanding of Iraqi points of view has been increase by reading Dr. Ahmed's Life in Baghdad and Najma's Star from Mosul. While not being as unrelievedly political as some, they appear to be anti-Coalition in many ways. Yet they lack the shrillness that you complain of and they certainly allow comments. It appears to me that the debate is more multifaceted than you let on and my suspicion is that these folks MAY BE (I only say "may be")more representative of Iraqi opinion than either of the two
"camps" you posit.

Please understand: I'm not saying that you or Ladybird are wrong, nor am I saying that Khalid is wrong. I'm just saying that LISTENING TO IRAQIS is partly about learning rather than just teaching and I feel that the debate may have been artificially characterized and limited by you.

I hear Ladybird saying that she doesn't want tyrants taking control of Iraq again under the guise of resistance to America. I understand her and I sympathize. I hear Khalid saying that he feels that the new Prime Minister is being high handed and adopting manners and a tone that resemble too much those of the Baathist he claims to be replacing. Sounds pretty reasonable. Making allowances for rhetorical excess and as far as they go, these takes both seem to be legitimate. I would love to hear from Khalid and Lady Bird: Where do you AGREE? And where do you SYMPATHIZE with the other parties' concerns, even if you cannot accept their conclusions? That seems to me to be part of a political debate, too!

But this is just my interest. As an American, I feel like a guest on this Blog and am happy to listen to the Iraqis have their say.

Jeff in Arlington

 
#8/11/2004 07:58:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Jeff,

I agree with everything you say.

Here are a couple questions for Ladybird and Khalid:

What Iraqi politicians do you think will step forward for election in January?

Which ones would you approve of?

Both Zeyad and Riverbend have written about the importance of tribes in Iraq. Is it possible for political parties to flourish outside of tribal affiliations?

I have a whole bag of questions here. Let's start with these.

One more:

Is it okay for Khalid to call Allawi -- a man who risks assassination every day to lead Iraq to elections in January -- a "dirty arrogant fascist"? Is this considered acceptable for public discourse?

*

 
#8/11/2004 08:36:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Nimrud or Omar:
No name calling in Arabic. Remember there are people here can read what you wrote in Arabic.

Jeff:
Believe me, there is not a single Iraqi, I repeat not a single Iraqi and responsible of what I am saying is Anti-coalition from patriotic feelings. They just lost something with the fall of sad dam, they can’t say it in public and they need a mask, so anti-coalition, anti occupation is the name for the mask.

More information about this subject read “letters from King Faisil” I bet you can find it on the Internet

LadyBird

 
#8/11/2004 08:55:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Ladybird,

Thanks for the "mask" analogy. I didn't know that. Hm. You've really made me think now. Okay, my ears and eyes are open.

Hey, I just posted a positive blog about Faiza. Check it out over at Iraqi Bloggers Central.

Sorry, but I have to turn in now. It's pretty late here.

Later.

*

 
#8/11/2004 03:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeffrey --

I find your droll protestations at being deleted highly amusing, given the dictatorial manner in which you run your own comments section. When being pummelled, as was the case with Ibn Battutah, you resort to banning and deletions. You have nothing to complain about.

And, I hate to break *this* to you, but Nimrod is the name of a legendary hunter. I don't see what is so idiotic about that name. "Jeffrey", on the other hand, means "God's Peace", which is highly ironic given your, umm ... how can I put this ... *excitable* nature.

--Bruno--

 
#8/11/2004 03:49:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Ladybird --

"Did you ever been in a jail khalid? did you ever saw people been hanged in the streets of Baghdad?? I bet not."

The problem that I have with your mindset is that you base your reasoning on emotive appeals instead of logical reason. Nobody disputes SH's brutality. But! Does his removal excuse the similar methods employed by those who would replace him?

No!

The early indicators (shooting people, chopping hands off, dictatorial manner) are that Allawi seems to be cast by the same mould that cast Saddam. What is more, he is an appointed puppet of the Americans. Do you really want, in five years time, to realise you have exchanged one devil with another? One who answers to Washington?

What is the bet that the US / Allawi will find an excuse to postpone the January elections?

--Bruno--

 
#8/11/2004 07:18:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Nimrud

I know that Jeffrey you nimrod. If you are so uneducated to not know what Nimrud means I suggest you take a look here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,946258,00.html

Good luck!

“Believe me, there is not a single Iraqi, I repeat not a single Iraqi and responsible of what I am saying is Anti-coalition from patriotic feelings.”

LadyBird you are cracking me up! You really think there aren’t Iraqis who are anti-“coalition” simply because their whole country has been destroyed, violated and occupied by foreigners to whom we posed no threat whatsoever? How long have you lived in Iraq anyway??? (I hope for your sake longer than the likes of Ahmed Al-Chalabi…)

Bruno, thanks for the commentary ;)

 
#8/11/2004 11:11:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Brunhilda!!!

Oh man, NOW I recognize you. He he. So it's Brunhilda again, is it?

Okay, let's go.

Four months of daily blogging. Missed one day while traveling. Do the math. I've banned ONE reader of the comments section. Here's why I banned him. This is what he called the other commenters at Iraqi Bloggers Central:

>you clowns
>you ignorant cretin
>you pathetic racist scum
>his tatty circus of freaks
>surround himself with idiots
>you empty headed windbags
>snivelling, racist, dumb Americans
>too lightweight to even worry about
>the weak and sick-minded among you
>fuck you, you thick, ugly-minded trash
>this thick, ugly-minded American bitch
>you are a low and worthless shallow individual
>Fuck you and the cheap, shabby horse you rode in on
>you insane, immoral, life-endangering, low-life fucking cow
>a coop for right wing chickens, racists, and brain-dead morons
>a vapid, shallow, bitter, self-obsessed, self-centred, two-faced hypocritical liar
>a thick American bastard who cyber-slobbers over a female with a warped mind

NOT his political orientation (although I disagreed with about most issues).

*

 
#8/11/2004 11:28:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Wie geht's, Brunhilda?

*

 
#8/12/2004 12:42:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

The name 'Nimrod' was apparently somewhat popular in the US in the 18th century, retaining popularity in the southern states through the mid/late 19th century. On of my great uncles, born some time before 1880, was named 'Nimrod' (referred to in family conversation as 'Uncle Nim'). My guess is that at some point between 1870 and 1920 a southern satirist created a character named 'Nimrod', a 'real nimrod' if you please. I know of no references, however the name went entirely out of fashion, and the southern colloquial usage (not common elsewhere, as far as I can tell) has ensured that Americans will not name their sons 'Nimrod', somewhat like the dearth of Sorens among the Scandinavians (refer Soren Kierkegaard and a mid-19th century comedy).

Be Well,
Bob Griffin

 
#8/12/2004 01:34:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Nimrud

“I've banned ONE reader of the comments section.”
WOW! I mean, what are you man??! I'm also one of the many banned from your comments section just because I made you look like a total redneck… Remember? ;)

A little info about the term "nimrod":
"The American Heritage Dictionary offers two distinct definitions of a nimrod -- either a hunter, or a person regarded as silly or foolish. The dictionary goes on to explain that the second meaning probably originated with the cartoon character Bugs Bunny. The wily Bugs used the term in its original sense to refer to dithering hunter Elmer Fudd, whom he called a "poor little Nimrod." Over time, however, the "hunter" meaning got dropped, and the "dithering" connotation stuck.
Nimrod was in fact a Biblical figure -- the great-grandson of Noah. He was a haughty king who declared himself a "mighty one in the earth," founded the great city of Babylon, and presided over the construction of the mythical Tower of Babel. Nimrod was also a renowned hunter, though at least one source we found claimed his game of choice was not animals but men, whom he would enslave upon capture. Whatever his prey, his name became synonymous with a skilled hunter."

Bugs Bunny? And you want me to take you seriously?

 
#8/12/2004 01:59:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Jeffrey, --Bruno--,

when i ask for no insult slinging, i include dredging up and re~quiping past insults. you may have noticed the delete icon that appears beneath your own posts respectively. this facility allows a comment poster to delete their own comments (but no~one else's) on review.

i've had enough of monitoring you. you can monitor yourselves.

 
#8/12/2004 07:06:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger madtom

Mr. Jarrar pease read this.
http://www.babalublog.com/archives/000921.html

 
#8/12/2004 07:11:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Emigre,

Sorry about that. I'll try not to let Nimrude engage me. And I'll try to keep my comments more succinct and use hyperlinks for longer passages.

*

 
#8/12/2004 07:37:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger madtom

What is the bet that the US / Allawi will find an excuse to postpone the January elections?

--Bruno--

I'll bet a dollar.

Madtom

 
#8/12/2004 10:27:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeffrey -- Uh, no, actually I recall you wanting Ibn Battutah to grovel and plead with you to remain on the boards, which he did not do, so ...

This is apart from various other paranoid mannerisms you have adopted in your native environment, such as not allowing mention of the name of some 'doleful dame' or other.

--Bruno--

 
#8/12/2004 04:43:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Jeffrey

Brunhilda,

Let's keep this stupid debate off of Emigre's weblog, okay?

If you want to discuss other issues, come over to Iraqi Bloggers Central -- or start your OWN weblog (Wow! What a concept!)

*

 
#8/13/2004 04:57:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Moron99

"Mr. president, i demand that you talk to the people in this room in a civilized way, you are an employee, the times of dictatorship are gone, you take your salary from our money"

That's the general idea of democracy. Believe it or not, that's what the US would wish to hear from each and every Iraqi. Their military would leave tommorrow if they were 100% positive that there would not, could not be any more dictators.

 
#8/13/2004 10:29:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Jeffrey -- "stupid" ? You said it.

--Bruno--

 

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