Sunday, September 19, 2004

Update on Un Ponte Per Baghdad Kidnapping

From Free Our Friends:

Sunday, September 19, 2004

Speculation about kidnappers

Deputy Iraqi Foreign Minister Hamid al-Bayati, said during a visit to Italy: "From the information at our disposal, they were kidnapped by criminal organisations that could have sold them to members of al-Zarqawi's group," (Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian member of al Qaeda). Bayati also said he had received information that they have been transferred to Falluja.

Meanwhile Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill speculated that foreign intelligence services might be involved, aiming to discredit the Iraqi resistance and scare away foreign peace activists. They base their argument on comments by Sheikh al-Kubaisi, on the peculiar style of the kidnapping and by asking who might benefit from this situation.

However there does not seem to be any hard facts about the identity of the kidnappers, which makes it difficult to know what to do to work for our friends freedom. All we can do is continue to pray and gather support from the whole world, hoping that whoever the kidnappers are they may be swayed by this and show mercy to four people who are loved so dearly and have given so much of themselves to help Iraq.

Also, here's the story in full.

Personally, I don't think things add up still with regard to this specific kidnapping. I think hard facts are witnesses. And there are several witnesses to what happened at the Un Ponte office. Most importantly, I, too, hope mercy is shown to the four that so many people are so fond of both inside and outside of Iraq & all other people that are in danger because of being kidnapped.

Update: I just vented on the comment section and corrected/clarified my view here. I should have disclaimed the fact that I am appalled at all kidnappings inside Iraq before frothing at the mouth because I am so appalled by this specific one. See comment for details of my opinion on the matter. It's all very sad, really.



#9/20/2004 01:47:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre

Whether it "adds up" or not, these are neither the first nor the only kidnapped Italians. Luckily for the aid workers they have friends who campaign for a release. Not all have been so fortunate.

#9/20/2004 04:08:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is NOT a member of al-Qaeda, he was originally associated with Ansar al-Islam in Northern Iraq and is quite independent of al-Qaeda. It is a mistake to be careless about the exact nature of his group because throwing the name 'al-Qaeda' about only serves to give credence to lying American claims about links between Iraq and al-Qaeda. In this way they then claim that American occupation of Iraq is a part of their unwinnable 'war on terror' instead of the illegal attack that it really was and still is.

Get it right - Abu Musab al-Zarqawi IS NOT AL-QAEDA

#9/20/2004 05:12:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger CharlesWT


Apparently, much of the rest of the world is not privy to your inside information.

#9/20/2004 10:27:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Charles Wt,

Even some of the links that you direct readers to only assert he is an 'ally' of, not a member of al-Qaeda. Just because an error is repeated one hundred thousand times it remains an error all the same.

I repeat, al-Zarqawi is NOT a member of al-Qaeda and this is not, as you incorrectly suggest, an opinion based upon 'insider information' - it is a simple matter of fact which is readily discernible to anyone who researches properly. You may wish to remain on the 'uninformed, picks up an error from a flawed source and repeats it like a bleating sheep' bandwagon but if you do then your destination will, alas, be terminal ignorance and you will be fated to be a recycler of terminological inexactitudes.

Try asking a grown-up if everything turned up in a 'Google' search is accurate and then perhaps consider consulting authoritative sources before leaping to flawed conclusions. Sloppy research and basing opinions on incorrect information and poor, uncritical analysis leads to things like nations creating false justifications for illegally attacking other nations - haven't you heard? Making a mistake is one thing but remaining ignorant when an error has been pointed out to you is inexcusable - and here we are dealing in facts, not opinions.

Last time, just for you - al-Zarqawi is NOT a member of al-Qaeda.

#9/20/2004 10:30:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Michael

They must have all fallen prey to American character assassination. Zarqawi likes al Qaeda. He's been sending them messages saying he'd like to work together and be their man in Iraq. But there's no evidence Bin Ladin et al have ever responded to his overtures.

Which is odd, if you think of it. What else would you do to impress them?

You declare a jihad. You gather mujahideen from around the world. You rave on about Jews, Christians and their agents. You work on the Caliphate. You kill innocent people. Lots of them. You even become Emir of the Islamic Emirate of Falluja, for crissakes. And still.


Can you imagine what he's thinking? Is it because of his provincial upbringing? Is it because he doesn't have a bushy enough beard? Is it because he doesn't know how to spell "Dostoyevsky"? He must feel so inadequate.

Oh, yeah. And he's also done some kidnapping work.

#9/20/2004 10:34:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Michael

Or so they say...

#9/20/2004 12:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger CharlesWT

Anon: " is NOT a member of al-Qaeda..."Until you provide evidence to support your assertion, it's just another opinion among many.

#9/20/2004 01:53:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Charles WT

It is a known and unassailable FACT among all reputable analysts of extremist groupings and also in intelligence circles the world over.

Evidently you do not move in them.

We could have marginally raised your IQ but you are obviously resistant to real knowledge, apparently preferring a diet of uninformed, regurgitated, unresearched nonsense.

Stay uninformed, it suits you.

#9/20/2004 02:02:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

What are we to make of the following comment from a US intelligence official? The official said al-Zarqawi is not a member of al Qaeda but "worked with them when it was convenient…" Quoted in U.S. says Iran harbors al Qaeda 'associate' OK? Now wipe that egg off your face and try to be a little more discerning with your reading in the future. Facts are far better for you than 'opinions'.

#9/20/2004 02:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger liminal


This will probably be long, but please bear with me.

Perhaps i should have had a disclaimer...and no doubt it's on my mind that there are many other kidnapped people in Iraq that haven't had the benefit of such exposure. So, I apologise for feeling so intensely abou tthese specific people working for Un Ponte. I must say, though, that they were doing a great service to Iraqis for a long time...not since this latest war, since 1992. And such loyalty and service should be paid in kind...consequently, I almost feel obligated to react in such a manner. So, please, don't take it the wrong way. These two Simonas have touched and helped more people in Iraq than I have. It's an honor for me to bring attention to their current situation in any manner I possibly can. But I hope mercy is shown on all kidnapped individuals, because it is inexcusable behavior and must be stopped. I'm afraid Iraq is ruined, though...Yes, I said it. This technique is not a new one. And I know it pretty well. It was used in Lebanon. My cousin was both kidnapped and tortured, then let go. So, the path we're headed down is extremely depressing considering all the hope I once had. I see elements of the Lebanese civil war coming to the surface these days...So, I'm trying to find reason in all the mess...and it's difficult.

That's all. I hope all kidnapped peoples are released. But I know this isn't going to stop anytime soon. I'm interested in the point where one's hope turns into desparation. This is what the west needs to become more familiar with through a systematic method of honest learning, not killing...then, perhaps western governments can stop instigating terrorism through terrorism itself while propping up autocratic leaders (king abdullah, mubarak, saud, and the list goes on) in al-watan arabiya. There needs to be a search for the cause of the problem, it then needs to be described and understood, then and only then may the most appropriate and even-handed solution be applied successfully...not through the levelling cities and towns with bombs dropped from planes and then expecting people to like being occupied and terrorized on a daily basis with the new society bourne from wars and sanctions.

i'll stop.

sorry for the length...and sorry for being so depressed about matters.

i'll snap out of it.


#9/20/2004 02:59:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre


It's ok, it's fine. I would like to see these people safe as much as you do. I just think that while we're covering it we need to be careful, thats all. I heard about them for the first time in non-web based news today (on radio and in a local paper) there are a number of other hostages being held right now too.

#9/20/2004 03:03:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger liminal


Yeah, totally...there's so many. Even Iraqis, and nobody talks about that at all. I hear ya, tho...

#9/20/2004 03:34:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

who cares if zarqawi is a member of al-queda or not, the guy is a wanker pure and simple, and so is bin laden and the rest of his jihadi rabble.

people starting to lose interest in iraq, kinda sick of it myself, used to think that iraqi's would grasp the opportunities provided to them with both hands but it seems more and more they are pandering to the pan-arab fantasies of their salafi 'brothers'

two girls HELPING iraqi people get kidnapped by some masked pricks and all you can worry bout is the semantics of whether zarqawi is al-queda or not.. while some other poster offers the usual crap bout the 'occupation' (yawn , not khalid by any chance was it)

#9/20/2004 04:08:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger emigre


If you are sick of it then why are you still visiting this site? No wait, don't tell me ~ it's something about the colour scheme that turns trolls on.

#9/20/2004 05:38:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

I might hasten to add that the effect of America's "War on Terror" is driving many regional terror groups to (a) seek links to other such groups and (b) causing some that have absolutely nothing to do with Al Qaeda to identify themselves as being linked to it, thereby increasing their media profile via the new American obsession with the organisation.

In other words, the US is pushing disparate groups closer together that might otherwise have had nothing to do with each other; it is increasing the glamour and news-worthiness of these groups .... and they are becoming more dangerous through this.

Good Job, guys!

#9/20/2004 09:54:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger CharlesWT


"It is a known and unassailable FACT among all reputable analysts of extremist groupings and also in intelligence circles the world over."
Appeal to authority does not prove an assertion.

"Evidently you do not move in them."
Neither does 99.999% of the rest of the world.

"We could have marginally raised your IQ but you are obviously resistant to real knowledge, apparently preferring a diet of uninformed, regurgitated, unresearched nonsense."
My preference is for facts to back up an assertion.

"Stay uninformed, it suits you."
I was hoping for some facts so I would be better informed.

"The official said al-Zarqawi is not a member of al Qaeda but "worked with them when it was convenient…"
Sounds like a distinction without much of a difference. Your link is a bit dated — June 10, 2003. A lot of facts and opinions could have changed since then.

"...try to be a little more discerning with your reading in the future."
True. I should have avoided reading your post.

I would be dumber and more ignorant than you seem to think I am if I believed the assertions of every anonymous voice whispering from the darkness of the Internet without asking for proof for the assertions made. Being anonymous, you have no identity, no history and no credibility.

#9/20/2004 11:09:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's real name is Ahmad Fadel al-Khalailah. As has been frequently noted, He vies with the better-known network of Osama bin Laden for contributions from the faithful, credit for attacks, and even for prized terrorist recruits. For anyone with an ounce of intelligence who studies fundamentalist groups and developments in Iraq the story of the Jordanian is well documented. Zarqawi was first thrust into the global media spotlight in February 2003, before the U.S. invasion of Iraq, when Secretary of State Colin Powell at the U.N. called him an "associate and collaborator" of bin Laden and part of a "sinister nexus between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network." Zarqawi, however, is not Osama's man, and still less was he Saddam's. The American administration has, of course, been dishonest in its attempts to create the perception of links between Iraq and al-Qaeda. At first, the Bush administration portrayed Zarqawi as part of Osama bin Laden's inner circle or most-trusted agents. But soon the backpedaling began. Zarqawi became an "associate" of Al Qaeda, a man who had trained in one of their camps. Then it turned out that his training was in Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion in the late 1980s, long before the Taliban and Al Qaeda entered the scene. Other terrorism experts describe him as a "fellow traveler" of Al Qaeda or inspired by Osama bin Laden. One Arab specialist, a professor at the University of Michigan, told the Washington Post that Zarqawi actually appears to be "a rival of the bin Laden group," with his own terrorist gang. This is a far cry from original Bush administration contentions that Zarqawi was Osama's lead link to Saddam Hussein…..US officials have admitted that Zarqawi's "vision" differs from bin Laden's… While US 'spinning' may have blurred the facts about al-Zarqawi and his activities in the minds of some gullible Americans there was no doubt in the minds of senior US officials - ...officials are growing certain of this much: that Zarqawi is his own man, with his own group, distinct from Osama Bin Laden. "I don't know if I should say this or not, but I—I suppose I can—it appears that Zarqawi may very well not have sworn allegiance" to Bin Laden, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said last week. "Maybe, because he disagrees with him on something, maybe because he wants to be 'The Man' himself, and maybe for a reason that's not known to me." The distance between Zarqawi and Bin Laden, it turns out, has been suspected for a while. They have had contacts and fought together in Afghanistan against the Soviets in the 1980s. But after the war, Zarqawi dedicated himself to overthrowing Jordan's King Hussein, while Bin Laden eyed bigger targets. Following a stint of several years in a Jordanian jail for plotting against the regime, Zarqawi returned to Afghanistan, where he built training camps and established his group, al-Tawhid. He retained his focus on Jordan, with the added goal, as one trainee put it, "to kill Jews everywhere." Zarqawi's camps were hundreds of miles from Bin Laden's, and the two reportedly competed for funds and recruits. One of Zarqawi's fighters, a Jordanian named Shadi Abdallah, told German investigators, "He is against al-Qaida." Not only was al-Zarqawi against al-Qaeda but German police intelligence reports say that Zarqawi's al-Tauhid group was set up, not as a branch of al-Qaeda, but in competition. And it is not merely competition over funding, recruits and 'reputation' that divides al-Zarqawi from al-Qaeda - Zarqawi and bin Laden also disagree over strategy. Zarqawi allegedly constructed his Tawhid network primarily to target Jews and Jordan. This choice reflected both Zarqawi's Palestinian heritage and his dissent from bin Laden's strategy of focusing on the "far enemy"--the United States...The Tawhid cell uncovered in Hamburg after 9/11 scouted Jewish targets, including businesses and synagogues. Zarqawi's operatives have been implicated in an attack on a Mombassa hotel frequented by Israeli tourists and an attempt to shoot down an Israeli jetliner. He is also suspected to have played a role in the Casablanca bombings of a Jewish community center and a Spanish social club...
The slaughter of Shias touches on another Zarqawi beef with bin Laden. While both men follow the strict code of Salafi Islam, which reckons Shias as apostates, bin Laden prides himself on being a unifying figure and has made tactical alliances with Shia groups...Zarqawi, by contrast, favors butchering Shias, calling them "the most evil of mankind."
Finally, it is a known, definite, incontrovertible, unassailable FACT that Though he met with bin Laden in Afghanistan several times, the Jordanian never joined al Qaeda. It is also becoming evident that Charles WT is an uneducated sponge willing to uncritically absorb whatever 'rumors' or unfounded speculation come into his purview. That he seeks to defend his ignorance rather than open his mind to factual information tells of a man who is comfortable with living the life of a fool.

#9/21/2004 12:24:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Who gives a shit if Zarqawi is a "member" of Al-Qaeda or NOT! The guy is an ASSHOLE and needs to be taken out!! Period! End of story!! There is no debate!!


#9/21/2004 02:12:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous


There IS a debate and it is framed around the ever-shifting semantics of America's 'war on terror' (sic). By attempting to lodge in the minds of unthinking, uncritical people who swallow unreliable reportage alleging that al-Qaeda had and has a presence in Iraq the Bush administration seeks to promote the view that it's illegal attack on Iraq has something to do with 9/11 and the pursuit of the perpetrators when this is not the case. Perhaps you have missed the reports but each and every justification for attacking Iraq has been proved to be false.

You also seem to have worked up a true massaged media sponge's hatred of the ubiquitous al-Zarqawi, a man, we are told by the highest authorities, who has only one leg and yet who manages to cause mayhem from Mosul to Basra and all points in between, being accused of being the architect or author of almost every atrocity in Iraq from car bombings, kidnappings, beheadings and gun attacks to stealing milk from old ladies' doorsteps. Some press reports state that he was actually killed in a bombing raid last year and senior US military sources are on record as saying that they do not know whether he is alive or dead.

That you are able to summon such avenging fury against this possibly mythical, possibly dead phantom marks you out as a promising candidate to be selected as a potential purchaser of the Brooklyn Bridge, either that or a suitable case for anger-management classes.

Given that al-Zarqawi's group has, up to now, faithfully paraded and executed its victims - the latest being CIA operative Eugene Armstrong - and has delivered on all its claims and threats the following article may be pertinent - al-Zarqawi group denies reports it 'bought' Italian hostagesHysteria is never a useful quality to bring to bear on the analysis of an issue or problem and knee-jerk reactions and uncritical acceptance of unsubstantiated rumors are not reliable ways to arrive at a deeper understanding of anything.

#9/21/2004 03:16:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

"CIA operative Eugene Armstrong".....OH MY GOD!! Fuck off "Anon"....Good grief!!!


#9/21/2004 03:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Grow up Connie and wash out your mouth with soap. After you have done that contemplate joining the REAL world, not the fairyland in your head. Do the names of Staff Sgt. Jack Hensley, 2nd squad leader for Co. Bs 3rd platoon or Eugene Armstrong, Ames Damage Assessment Team, Central Intelligence Agency strike you as familiar at all?

#9/21/2004 02:12:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Connie --

So basically, what you are saying is that even though Zarqawi has nothing to do with 9/11, or Saddam's WMD or in fact anything to do with the US, in your opinion he ought to be eliminated because: "The guy is an ASSHOLE and needs to be taken out!! ".

I would just like to clarify something at this point : do *all* "assholes" deserve to be "taken out", and what are your criteria for determining the "assholeness" of individuals?

Please, enlighten me, and we can talk about your hypocrisy.

My second question to you is - bearing in mind he never posed any threat to the US before this war: does the 'taking out' of Zarqawi justify the US staying in Iraq for another ten years?

(Naturally, more Iraqi civilians will be killed, but it is all worth it in order to kill that major menace, Zarqawi! Even if the whole of Falluja is razed to the ground, eh?)

#9/22/2004 02:35:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

You are such an idiot! I'm laughin' my ass off over here!! You mean to tell me there is only ONE Eugene Armstrong in the world and only ONE Jack Hensley in the world??? I bet I could "Google" my name and find out that I TOO work for the CIA and/or the US military!! Show me the identification badges/ID's that belong to these two guys that you claim are the LATE Armstrong and Hensley that states they worked for the CIA/US military...then I'll believe you!
Thanks for the laugh guy!! That's great.
And Bruno....I can't EVEN get started with you!! In the words of Teresa Heinz-Kerry..."Shove it!"....hehehe

#9/22/2004 02:49:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Poor Connie! Not the sharpest knife in the box are you? I suppose you'll be telling us next that Eugene Armstrong was just a sightseer when he was stationed in Bosnia and Angola? It's O.K. Connie, you chuckle at your 'Google' fantasies while ex-CIA man Eugene Armstrong gets laid to rest.

#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

Sorry, can i use bad words here?

#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:26:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:34:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:34:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

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#9/22/2004 08:34:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger khalid jarrar

"suspects" of the existance of a man that "could" be a qaeda fan, are enough for you to invade Iraq, but full names for CIA agent are not good enough to identify an agent in an occupied country?

#9/22/2004 10:31:00 am Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Connie --

"And Bruno....I can't EVEN get started with you!! In the words of Teresa Heinz-Kerry..."Shove it!"....hehehe

Yup, that's about what I expected.

Keep thinking with your ass, Connie, it does a better job than your head.

#9/22/2004 01:08:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Well lookit'people, it sure seems plum simple enough to explain this lil spat as far as I can tell; thar's jist two kinda folks livin' in this majestic, rotating celestial orb we's all inhabitin' an' tryin' to make a home in (ifn them thar pollutin' an' war-mongerin' fools don't go an' destroy the whole gorgeous thing under us anytime soon that is), an' that's them that knows stuff an' them like Connie. See? Folks that know stuff an' folks that don't know stuff never gits along coz the folks that don't know stuff jist make stuff up ter try to patch over them holes that's inhabitin' their heads. Then they gits all ornery when folks that know stuff catches 'em out talkin' horse's doo-doos an' that's when all the cussin' starts. Best leave folks that don't know stuff alone - hell, they won't even know yer ignorin' 'em or keepin' stuff from 'em!

#9/22/2004 01:47:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Aaaah HA HA HA !!

#9/23/2004 01:23:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

okay boys...I'll play....
You mean to tell me that the two of you, well three now that Khalid is on board with this CIA nonsense, you mean to tell me that the three of you are the only ones who have "discovered" these CIA agents? No one else has...not even the beloved and ever so truthful Al-Jazeera....not CNN, not ABC, not NBC, not CBS,not MSNBC, not one has come up with this "breaking news" that these three "construction" workers, were actually undercover "CIA agents"!! hehehe....
Again, show me their ID's....not a Google search!
Oh, and by the way, the British hostage, Ken Bigley, does he TOO work for the CIA or would it be MI-6?

Your favorite,

#9/23/2004 02:11:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous more thing....just to prove my point...
Khalid, I didn't know you tended cabbage in your spare time. In this article it says that you do. I mean this MUST be YOU right? I simply typed in your name, not even in Google, I Yahoo'd it, and this is what I came up. A man named Khalid Jarrar, who is Palestinian....and YOU are the ONLY Khalid Jarrar in the world right? And if the internet says so...well MUST be true....

"EVERY DAY, Khalid Jarrar goes to tend his cabbage patch in the shadow of an eight-meter high concrete wall in Qalqiliya."

see what I mean?Connie

#9/23/2004 03:48:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Italian hostages reported dead

#9/23/2004 05:22:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Web site posting - Italian hostages slain

#9/23/2004 01:44:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Connie --

Firstly, I see that you have avoided in answering either of my previous questions. I guess the subject of trying to rationalize the presence of US troops in Iraq is painful to you, in the light of all the lies puked out on your behalf. Perhaps if you took an aspirin, and tried again in answering my questions, you would do better.

Secondly, I never claimed that these two were "CIA Agents". I don't know enough on this particular matter to issue pronouncements. But your lumping me together with them does shed light on your confused state of mind, however.

Thirdly, Anon's claims *are not* to be so easily dismissed. Remember the "Fallujah Four"?

First they were unarmed contractors supplying food to starving Iraqis. Then, the facts started to leak out. Then they were supplying food to US troops. Then they turned out to be part of one of the notorious security firms. Then we found out they were in fact, heavily armed and in actual fact ex-special forces soldiers. Then we found out that they were on some sort of reconnaissance mission, not delivering food at all.

So, unarmed food delivery contractors mutated into special forces on deep reconnaissance.

What I am saying is, the US is excellent at 'spin', and tries to distort (or just lie) the facts of any incident with regularity. If Armstrong et al were CIA, do you really imagine the US would admit it? Please! Let me just say that I would lend more credence to Anon's Google search than to Colin Powell's speech to the UN, at this point.

Finally, see that you have effectively managed to sidetrack the issue onto the moot point of whether they are CIA or not, and ignore the real debate ... which is whether the US is (a) justifying it's presence in Iraq through harping on Zarqawi's imagined Al Qaeda links and (b) whether the US is justifying bombing all manner of targets "because Zarqawi was there".

#9/23/2004 11:59:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

well I'll tell ya what Bruno, why don't you set up a meeting between me, you and Zarqawi and we'll settle this once and for all...I mean if he is not really part of Al-Qaeda all he has to do is defend himself by stating that he has nothing to do with Al-Qaeda or any of the killings....I'll be more than happy to hear this man out. I'll go in totally non-partisan...kinda like Mike Wallace on 60 minutes (of course I'll bring a camera crew and all. We gotta get it on tape!)...Although you may have a hard time finding Zarqawi, according to "Anonymous" he may not even exist.
So what'd'ya say? I'm free to meet Monday or Wednesday of next week? Is that good for you? Check with "Z" and get back with me on that okay?

#9/24/2004 06:02:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Somebody increase Connie's meds, quick!

#9/24/2004 06:39:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Whoever you are, Wherever you are...YOU love me and you know it!!

Pax vobiscum!

#9/27/2004 06:23:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Connie --

Somewhat amusing, if short on actual content. Basically, You are saying that you don't know if he has AQ links or not, but that still justifies American bombs dropped on Falluja etc. Just want to clarify matters here...

#9/28/2004 03:52:00 am Assalam Aleikom Anonymous Anonymous

Saint Bruno,
Neither you or I know whether or not Mr. Zarqawi has links to AQ or not because both of us, yes BOTH of US (I admit it.), are getting our information from the media. So unless you and I actually talk to the man himself, (which would be kinda cool as hell by the way...a little scary but still...kinda cool) we will never know "for sure, 100% sure" if he has links to AQ....But...I don't believe the US is just sticking a pin in a map and saying, "Okay today lets bomb....uh....Faluja! Yeah! that sounds good."....for no reason at all. You may think that is naive but I am going to stick with my belief until I'm proven wrong.


#9/28/2004 05:16:00 pm Assalam Aleikom Blogger Bruno

Frankly, if the slew of links that Anon posted are not enough to convince you that Zarqawi does not operate with AQ, then you are wilfully blind, I'm sad to say.

Sad, because it is always a strange experience for me to witness somebody who has decided which side of the story she believes, and is unwilling to consider information which does not fit with her view, no matter how compelling.

I suppose there were still flat earthers about when Magellen returned, so perhaps I ought not be so surprised.


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